Independent Girls in Mumbai 2

Does any one know this lady. She is from kharghar , well educated himself wife , some how I lost her contact
 

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Hello All,

I was away from Mumbai since last 2 years and have now returned back. So looking for some new indie contact.

I would be a pleasure if someone can share indie contact from western/central line.

Also I can share some indie's contact too but they are from 2 years back.

Help a guy in need and I'll share whatever I can.
Cheers!
DM me

Sent from my Nokia 8.1 Plus using Tapatalk
 
Guys beware of this impotent napunsak bastard @augustya who is a contact collector and fake monger. I have already exposed him before both here and in ISG forum where his ID is Jooeey🤣🤣

I am attaching screenshot to proove that this bhadwa madarchod randi ka baccha coward impotent napunsak @Augustya has created an ID in name of @The God-Father to save his ass here 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

His 1st original ID is @Augustya here.

His 2nd ID was XXX ( Xander Cage )

His 3rd ID was @magneto

His 4th ID was @HunterK

His 5th ID was @Professur

His 6th ID was @mynameisbond

His 7th ID was @The_Hulk

His 8th ID was Bounty Hunter

His 9th ID was @Vicky98 from ISG which he created recently to cheat people and collect contacts and to spoil them in the name of someone else.

His present 10th ID is @The God-Father


so in between 4 months he has changed 8 IDs all together...this shows that this guy @augustya was a fraud and fake monger who suffers from impotent napunsak impotent bimari.

In my view a person who regularly changes his ID is a scammer and fake monger. Don't share any contacts with this impotent napunsak bastard @augustya urf Jooeey both here and in ISG forum. His ID in ISG is @Jooeey !!


Issued in public interest 😂😂🍺🍺

Every senior in ISG knows that Jooeey is a fake monger and contact collector LOL 😂😂🤣🤣😉
 
Any one in touch with guy on locanto named dearjack who arranges parties /orgies? Anyone taken his service ? Pl reply
 
My first and probably the last FR on Pooja (Koparkhairane).

First of all thanks Kapton for sharing the contact of the lady.

I came to this forum just to understand the experiences of fellow mongers and wanted to experience this world of mongering myself as well before I get married.

I reached Koparkhairane at 4 PM as confirmed by Pooja at Sreeraj lodge. The lodge being small in size was very clean and neat.
She was waiting inside the room already. She is indeed more beautiful than what she appears in her photos.
As I mentioned since this was my very first time meeting an Indie my whole body became hot and Johny got tight even before entering the room!
I told her very openly that it is my first time and I may face the fear of performance. But the lady is so calm and a good listener. Not a time watcher for sure.
She helped me get over my anxiety by talking about my personal life as well as her life situations.. I don't know whether it was true or fake but that helped me overcome my anxiety for sure.
She got undressed first and was in only a Bra and panties. Both were animal printed and matching, which actually turned me on.
She sat beside me and help me undress. I grabbed her small but handful boobies and started fondling them like there is no tomorrow! I felt her nipples getting hard, I removed her Bra and freed the birds out of the cage. Did a very hard groping and sucking as she repeatedly pressed my head on her chest, she probably enjoying the suck. Then she held my johny in her hand and with a tight grip, she started shaking it relentlessly. It became stiff and hard.
Then started a blowjob. It was sloppy but I felt every inch of her throat with the tip of my d!ck.
Then took her in Doggy. Her pussy is not so tight not so loose either. Then made her lie down and banged her for good 10 mins until her legs got stiff. Her bangles doing a sweet sound with each stroke that was most arousing... I came in the condi with loads of cum and laid in her arms for about 10 mins as we both were breathing heavily. I was satisfied for the moment.

And guys the important part of this FR starts from here:

For some reason, I did not take 2nd round. I just paid her and left the place.
But I was not feeling well inside since then. My mental peace is disturbed. My focus is gone.
I am an engineer in a reputed MNC handling crucial roles and my mind is sharp but post this session I started feeling that I am not that same old person and I am something else! I came home and took a bath twice...but her fragrance did not leave my body. I am feeling her touch all over my body and I was not feeling this good at all. Done a "Diya Batti and Pooja" at home like every day but there was something that got latched which I wasn't able to get rid of.
It took me about 4 days to get normalized and I did a lot of meditation to find myself back!

Guys what I learned from this episode: Whenever we make random Sex with anyone, It's not just bodies. You exchange your Energies. If that person is carrying around Guilt, Shame or Trauma you can energetically absorb that. being an engineer I can say.. it's like Plugging your device into a corrupt system and ending up downloading vulnerabilities in your device. Sex is a sacred act and should be treated as such.

However I have no regret though, I wanted an experience, and I had it. I got my all questions answered, A good a Bad this will remain forever with me.

Hmmm one of the best FR I ever came across...You spoke your heart out .....I like it.wow
 
My first and probably the last FR on Pooja (Koparkhairane).

First of all thanks Kapton for sharing the contact of the lady.

I came to this forum just to understand the experiences of fellow mongers and wanted to experience this world of mongering myself as well before I get married.

I reached Koparkhairane at 4 PM as confirmed by Pooja at Sreeraj lodge. The lodge being small in size was very clean and neat.
She was waiting inside the room already. She is indeed more beautiful than what she appears in her photos.
As I mentioned since this was my very first time meeting an Indie my whole body became hot and Johny got tight even before entering the room!
I told her very openly that it is my first time and I may face the fear of performance. But the lady is so calm and a good listener. Not a time watcher for sure.
She helped me get over my anxiety by talking about my personal life as well as her life situations.. I don't know whether it was true or fake but that helped me overcome my anxiety for sure.
She got undressed first and was in only a Bra and panties. Both were animal printed and matching, which actually turned me on.
She sat beside me and help me undress. I grabbed her small but handful boobies and started fondling them like there is no tomorrow! I felt her nipples getting hard, I removed her Bra and freed the birds out of the cage. Did a very hard groping and sucking as she repeatedly pressed my head on her chest, she probably enjoying the suck. Then she held my johny in her hand and with a tight grip, she started shaking it relentlessly. It became stiff and hard.
Then started a blowjob. It was sloppy but I felt every inch of her throat with the tip of my d!ck.
Then took her in Doggy. Her pussy is not so tight not so loose either. Then made her lie down and banged her for good 10 mins until her legs got stiff. Her bangles doing a sweet sound with each stroke that was most arousing... I came in the condi with loads of cum and laid in her arms for about 10 mins as we both were breathing heavily. I was satisfied for the moment.

And guys the important part of this FR starts from here:

For some reason, I did not take 2nd round. I just paid her and left the place.
But I was not feeling well inside since then. My mental peace is disturbed. My focus is gone.
I am an engineer in a reputed MNC handling crucial roles and my mind is sharp but post this session I started feeling that I am not that same old person and I am something else! I came home and took a bath twice...but her fragrance did not leave my body. I am feeling her touch all over my body and I was not feeling this good at all. Done a "Diya Batti and Pooja" at home like every day but there was something that got latched which I wasn't able to get rid of.
It took me about 4 days to get normalized and I did a lot of meditation to find myself back!

Guys what I learned from this episode: Whenever we make random Sex with anyone, It's not just bodies. You exchange your Energies. If that person is carrying around Guilt, Shame or Trauma you can energetically absorb that. being an engineer I can say.. it's like Plugging your device into a corrupt system and ending up downloading vulnerabilities in your device. Sex is a sacred act and should be treated as such.

However I have no regret though, I wanted an experience, and I had it. I got my all questions answered, A good a Bad this will remain forever with me.
Happened to me first time too was in bad place in life i m a gud looking guy playboy type got heartbroken bad you never expect it done to you i wanted quick pussy got on bike went to spa fucked aunties brains out while going home i felt more pathetic called my girl bff started crying like shit i was so scared of std too even if i had condom on sti are still possible so i got more tests done
Promised never to do it again
But then found dis forum some guy shared afro contacts i fought again
To not go but tht afro booty so wet in
Porno i had to check but the fear set in
But again low time arrived off to afro booty town i went she fucked my brains out came home again afraid tests etc then i had a chat wit doc he said wear condom for bj etc too try not to kisss i said bc q hi karna hai ye sab i ll get a gf soon
No gf yet but condom is enough to keep bad energy out so chill out and fuck if you wanna you hav one life we all ll die one day dont regret wat you hav done try not to make a bad choice in future all we can do is try but we still might fuck up
So jst chill pooja se kar pooja mat kar ;)
 
My first and probably the last FR on Pooja (Koparkhairane).

First of all thanks Kapton for sharing the contact of the lady.

I came to this forum just to understand the experiences of fellow mongers and wanted to experience this world of mongering myself as well before I get married.

I reached Koparkhairane at 4 PM as confirmed by Pooja at Sreeraj lodge. The lodge being small in size was very clean and neat.
She was waiting inside the room already. She is indeed more beautiful than what she appears in her photos.
As I mentioned since this was my very first time meeting an Indie my whole body became hot and Johny got tight even before entering the room!
I told her very openly that it is my first time and I may face the fear of performance. But the lady is so calm and a good listener. Not a time watcher for sure.
She helped me get over my anxiety by talking about my personal life as well as her life situations.. I don't know whether it was true or fake but that helped me overcome my anxiety for sure.
She got undressed first and was in only a Bra and panties. Both were animal printed and matching, which actually turned me on.
She sat beside me and help me undress. I grabbed her small but handful boobies and started fondling them like there is no tomorrow! I felt her nipples getting hard, I removed her Bra and freed the birds out of the cage. Did a very hard groping and sucking as she repeatedly pressed my head on her chest, she probably enjoying the suck. Then she held my johny in her hand and with a tight grip, she started shaking it relentlessly. It became stiff and hard.
Then started a blowjob. It was sloppy but I felt every inch of her throat with the tip of my d!ck.
Then took her in Doggy. Her pussy is not so tight not so loose either. Then made her lie down and banged her for good 10 mins until her legs got stiff. Her bangles doing a sweet sound with each stroke that was most arousing... I came in the condi with loads of cum and laid in her arms for about 10 mins as we both were breathing heavily. I was satisfied for the moment.

And guys the important part of this FR starts from here:

For some reason, I did not take 2nd round. I just paid her and left the place.
But I was not feeling well inside since then. My mental peace is disturbed. My focus is gone.
I am an engineer in a reputed MNC handling crucial roles and my mind is sharp but post this session I started feeling that I am not that same old person and I am something else! I came home and took a bath twice...but her fragrance did not leave my body. I am feeling her touch all over my body and I was not feeling this good at all. Done a "Diya Batti and Pooja" at home like every day but there was something that got latched which I wasn't able to get rid of.
It took me about 4 days to get normalized and I did a lot of meditation to find myself back!

Guys what I learned from this episode: Whenever we make random Sex with anyone, It's not just bodies. You exchange your Energies. If that person is carrying around Guilt, Shame or Trauma you can energetically absorb that. being an engineer I can say.. it's like Plugging your device into a corrupt system and ending up downloading vulnerabilities in your device. Sex is a sacred act and should be treated as such.

However I have no regret though, I wanted an experience, and I had it. I got my all questions answered, A good a Bad this will remain forever with me.

On a lighter note.. look how traumatising deadfish experience can be folk!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Is there any walkin lodge between thane and ghatkopar that have in-house birds. Please guide.
 
Hey Guys, I meet her few weeks ago and she not looked well, but i still bang her 2 times. And after 1 week i get boils on my jonny base. it is very itchy and little pus come from boils.
After first round some heavy red and white juice come from her cat. i ask her what and she say it normal. i say ok..
i wash jonny then we talk and then she start give me long very good bbj and then i have her on top then missy. but she is say alot pain in her cat and say to do it slowly.
i feel something bad. this not normal as i dont have big jonny to hurt her cat. i finish and pay her and leave.
i think am sure she infected inside cat and that why i get boils on my penis. it is very itchy and painful on my jonny. I meet only her in last 6 months.
Doctor say i get STD form her as i tell him everything abt how i meet her 1 week before infection.
She give very good service and bbj 9/10. but her cat something bad and now i get infection on my jonny.
Now i get boils infection on jonny forever.... friends please be careful to meet her.
i pay 4.5 k for 2 shots
1100 hotel + 50 tip to room boy
Hey Guys, I forget to mention, I already have old account on this forum with few Fr, but i make this new account so i dont get some forum people attack me, as they are her regular clients. They will say i am Lie about her. If you dont believe then look at her body, she has dark boil marks or something on chest area and she dont allow to see her cat area, but i dont ask anything to her. So look like she get sick because of infection and now she start to service again. I know some of you will not believe. So its upto you.
 
Guys!
Any good chicks near Ghodbunder Road in thane? Please help

Sent from my I1927 using Tapatalk
 
Do sex workers think that men who hire them are losers?

NO Not at all,

They might trick you to keep them in your good books for business.

In fact, I think it’s amazing and empowering to be able to use a sex worker. If I was a guy, I would almost certainly have used them.
We are creatures that are driven to want sex. Men are especially driven, more so than women, biologically speaking.

As a society, sex isn’t always easy to obtain. There is usually the issue of two way attraction, a certain number of dates, maintaining a relationship, the possible difficulties of one night stands and not to mention all the hassle of getting to that stage.

Sometimes, it could be early morning, after breakfast, at lunch time, after dinner or late night that you feel horny and you want to have sex with someone. You don’t always have the time or energy to go out and find a sexual partner. Or, maybe you have a busy life and a job that keeps you away from the social scene.
Maybe you just want to talk and vent it out to a stranger ..Crazy isn't it. Yep that happens. Everyone is struggling through some or the other things.
All that Glitters are not Gold for sure.
Maybe you have a fetish that you don’t know how to bring up with your sexual partners.
Maybe you are unfulfilled in your marriage and your wife stopped having sex with you years ago but you don’t want to have an affair. Or maybe you have a physical or mental disability or that you are not considered to be ‘classically good looking’ but still would like to have sex with attractive people.

Sometimes, you just want to fuck!

Whatsoever be the reason for a person using a sex worker, the point is that they are there to provide a service that (mostly) men need for many reasons.
I never considered any guy a ‘loser’ for using a sex worker. In fact, I considered many of the men I saw as friends, lovers and clients.
Some were ‘classically good looking’ and successful, others were not. But I treated each and every man the same and I never judged anyone nor asked, as to their reasons for wanting to see me. I was just grateful that they did. Gratitude only.

Casual sex, One night stand, fuck buddies, -Its all 2 way, Mutual agreement of respect and Non judgmental need. Understanding and having a clarity of what you are getting into is very important. If you fail to do so and just go around blabbering about all your bad experiences putting someone down then you are definitely a "LOSER".

🙏🙏 Namaste aj k liye bass itna he...😀
Gyaan hai free ka hai.....charges nahi hai.
 
Every senior in ISG knows that Jooeey is a fake monger and contact collector LOL 😂😂🤣🤣😉

Yes well said 😓😓😓 I am means Jooeey aka Augustya is a fake monger of Mumbai ISG forum with zero contribution 😫😫😪😪😭😭😭... I just do time pass in forum and collect numbers to Shag in my pants sitting in my slum in Dharavi 😓😓😫😪😭😭😖😖😖🙏🙏
 
Nasik/ nashik
I am traveling tomorrow to nasik
Any Contact in Nasik guys plz help out
I can share Mumbai connection
 
Into the abyss, my mongering tale.

I got into this world to try and ease the pain of a breakup. Dating was never a problem, but my mind convinced me to go on an emotionless pursuit of carnal pleasure to forget the one I loved who cheated on me. Well, that was my justification anyway... An eye for an eye.

Started with MP's after reading about them here. After my first MP experience, I couldn't sleep the entire night. Sure, the girl was a cutie and it felt like we were a married couple inside the small room of the spa, but i still couldn't sleep that night. I don't know why.

I felt something changed inside me. I was no longer the same guy I was yesterday. I ended up making the mistake of continuing to visit MP's. This only progressed to Indies and SBs with no sight in end. Maybe it was the dopamine rush? I don't know what exactly happened, but I just couldn't stop. I felt like I'm losing control of my mind.

Experience after experience, girl after girl, nothing seemed to make me feel happy inside. It turned into a carnal pursuit of fuck knows what ..... Something I realised I will never ever find in this world of mongering (Intimacy and emotional fulfillment) I still don't know what I'm doing here. I want to kid myself by saving that I just wanted to experience new things, which I did, but at this point i feel like I'm dwindling into self sabotage.

Just a few months into mongering, my productivity dwindled, my work ethic got destroyed. I totally lost my ability to focus and control my impulses. This messed up my grades, made me fail exams and end up wayy behind everyone else in my life. I'm still trying to catch up while everyone my age is married, minting money with high paying jobs or just satisfied in general with where they are in life.

This entire mongering duration of 4 years, I felt sad all the time, nothing made me happy anymore. Ended up being diagnosed with clinical depression and general anxiety disorder after discussing it all with a therapist. Ultimately I have reached a point where I just can't be at peace for even a minute in a day. Even now, I'm suffering from insomnia and my escape seems to be a spa or a bar to numb my brain and stop the thoughts in my head, albeit for a short duration.

Not just mentally, but i have also faltered socially. Used to be a social butterfly with confidence, but now I have suddenly become an introvert. Can't go and chat up random girls or even guys. Hell, I have become awkward even with friends I have known for a decade. Even they can sense something is wrong with me and I have changed.

The guy is right, we truly exchange energies. And it looks like I'm a negatively charged electrode right now.

It's been fun to interact with mongers here and on discord, some wonderful and helpful people. Hell, it's been fun to meet some Indies, spa and bargirls too, but it's just killing me inside. I'm just not cut for this.

Is mongering wrong? Not at all. It's good for both the monger and the girl! It sustains households. I think it's perfect for high performing individuals who can keep their emotions in check. However, it feels like I'm not that guy yet. Maybe I will return to mongering one day if need be, once i unfuck my life.

I have tried to quit 2-3 times by now....but hopefully this is my last message here. I truly hope I can quit this for good and do something meaningful with my life. I don't know if I can ever get back to the way I was before I took this up, but I sure hope it doesn't get any worse. Sorry for the long rant, you guys are the only ones I can share this with.
 
Last edited:
Into the abyss, my mongering tale.

I got into this world to try and ease the pain of a breakup. Dating was never a problem, but my mind convinced me to go on an emotionless pursuit of carn pleasure to forget the one I loved who cheated on me. Well, that was my justification anyway... An eye for an eye.

Started with MP's after reading about them here. After my first MP experience, I couldn't sleep the entire night. Sure, the girl was a cutie and it felt like we were a married couple inside the small room of the spa, but i still couldn't sleep that night. I don't know why.

I felt something changed inside me. I was no longer the same guy I was yesterday. I ended up making the mistake of continuing to visit MP's. This only progressed to Indies and SBs with no sight in end. Maybe it was the dopamine rush? I don't know what exactly happened, but I just couldn't stop. I felt like I'm losing control of my mind.

Experience after experience, girl after girl, nothing seemed to make me feel happy inside. It turned into a carnal pursuit of fuck knows what ..... Something I realised I will never ever find in this world of mongering (Intimacy and emotional fulfillment) I still don't know what I'm doing here. I want to kid myself by saving that I just wanted to experience new things, which I did, but at this point i feel like I'm dwindling into self sabotage.

Just a few months into mongering, my productivity dwindled, my work ethic got destroyed. I totally lost my ability to focus and control my impulses. This messed up my grades, made me fail exams and end up wayy behind everyone else in my life. I'm still trying to catch up while everyone my age is married, minting money with high paying jobs or just satisfied in general with where they are in life.

This entire mongering duration of 4 years, I felt sad all the time, nothing made me happy anymore. Ended up being diagnosed with clinical depression and general anxiety disorder after discussing it all with a therapist. Ultimately I have reached a point where I just can't be at peace for even a minute in a day. Even now, I'm suffering from insomnia and my escape seems to be a spa or a bar to numb my brain and stop the thoughts in my head, albeit for a short duration.

Not just mentally, but i have also faltered socially. Used to be a social butterfly with confidence, but now I have suddenly become an introvert. Can't go and chat up random girls or even guys. Hell, I have become awkward even with friends I have known for a decade. Even they can sense something is wrong with me and I have changed.

The guy is right, we truly exchange energies. And it looks like I'm a negatively charged electrode right now.

It's been fun to interact with mongers here and on discord, some wonderful and helpful people. Hell, it's been fun to meet some Indies, spa and bargirls too, but it's just killing me inside. I'm just not cut for this.

This is hopefully my last message here. I truly hope I can quit this for good and do something meaningful with my life. I don't know if I can ever get back to the way I was before I took this up, but I sure hope it doesn't get any worse. Sorry for the long rant, you guys are the only ones I can share this with.
You will be fine.....❤
 
Last edited:
Into the abyss, my mongering tale.

I got into this world to try and ease the pain of a breakup. Dating was never a problem, but my mind convinced me to go on an emotionless pursuit of carnal pleasure to forget the one I loved who cheated on me. Well, that was my justification anyway... An eye for an eye.

Started with MP's after reading about them here. After my first MP experience, I couldn't sleep the entire night. Sure, the girl was a cutie and it felt like we were a married couple inside the small room of the spa, but i still couldn't sleep that night. I don't know why.

I felt something changed inside me. I was no longer the same guy I was yesterday. I ended up making the mistake of continuing to visit MP's. This only progressed to Indies and SBs with no sight in end. Maybe it was the dopamine rush? I don't know what exactly happened, but I just couldn't stop. I felt like I'm losing control of my mind.

Experience after experience, girl after girl, nothing seemed to make me feel happy inside. It turned into a carnal pursuit of fuck knows what ..... Something I realised I will never ever find in this world of mongering (Intimacy and emotional fulfillment) I still don't know what I'm doing here. I want to kid myself by saving that I just wanted to experience new things, which I did, but at this point i feel like I'm dwindling into self sabotage.

Just a few months into mongering, my productivity dwindled, my work ethic got destroyed. I totally lost my ability to focus and control my impulses. This messed up my grades, made me fail exams and end up wayy behind everyone else in my life. I'm still trying to catch up while everyone my age is married, minting money with high paying jobs or just satisfied in general with where they are in life.

This entire mongering duration of 4 years, I felt sad all the time, nothing made me happy anymore. Ended up being diagnosed with clinical depression and general anxiety disorder after discussing it all with a therapist. Ultimately I have reached a point where I just can't be at peace for even a minute in a day. Even now, I'm suffering from insomnia and my escape seems to be a spa or a bar to numb my brain and stop the thoughts in my head, albeit for a short duration.

Not just mentally, but i have also faltered socially. Used to be a social butterfly with confidence, but now I have suddenly become an introvert. Can't go and chat up random girls or even guys. Hell, I have become awkward even with friends I have known for a decade. Even they can sense something is wrong with me and I have changed.

The guy is right, we truly exchange energies. And it looks like I'm a negatively charged electrode right now.

It's been fun to interact with mongers here and on discord, some wonderful and helpful people. Hell, it's been fun to meet some Indies, spa and bargirls too, but it's just killing me inside. I'm just not cut for this.

Is mongering wrong? Not at all. It's good for both the monger and the girl! It sustains households. I think it's perfect for high performing individuals who can keep their emotions in check. However, it feels like I'm not that guy yet. Maybe I will return to mongering one day if need be, once i unfuck my life.

I have tried to quit 2-3 times by now....but hopefully this is my last message here. I truly hope I can quit this for good and do something meaningful with my life. I don't know if I can ever get back to the way I was before I took this up, but I sure hope it doesn't get any worse. Sorry for the long rant, you guys are the only ones I can share this with.
This is not a good scene given what you just narrated. ..mp or db etc etc..,don't ever go back if u value having a life..been there, done that with loads and loads more emotional, physical and financial security, yet i still thank my lucky stars..
U seem like a good bloke..stay away..stay disciplines...u will thank yourself 5 years from now..God speed
 
Into the abyss, my mongering tale.

I got into this world to try and ease the pain of a breakup. Dating was never a problem, but my mind convinced me to go on an emotionless pursuit of carnal pleasure to forget the one I loved who cheated on me. Well, that was my justification anyway... An eye for an eye.

Started with MP's after reading about them here. After my first MP experience, I couldn't sleep the entire night. Sure, the girl was a cutie and it felt like we were a married couple inside the small room of the spa, but i still couldn't sleep that night. I don't know why.

I felt something changed inside me. I was no longer the same guy I was yesterday. I ended up making the mistake of continuing to visit MP's. This only progressed to Indies and SBs with no sight in end. Maybe it was the dopamine rush? I don't know what exactly happened, but I just couldn't stop. I felt like I'm losing control of my mind.

Experience after experience, girl after girl, nothing seemed to make me feel happy inside. It turned into a carnal pursuit of fuck knows what ..... Something I realised I will never ever find in this world of mongering (Intimacy and emotional fulfillment) I still don't know what I'm doing here. I want to kid myself by saving that I just wanted to experience new things, which I did, but at this point i feel like I'm dwindling into self sabotage.

Just a few months into mongering, my productivity dwindled, my work ethic got destroyed. I totally lost my ability to focus and control my impulses. This messed up my grades, made me fail exams and end up wayy behind everyone else in my life. I'm still trying to catch up while everyone my age is married, minting money with high paying jobs or just satisfied in general with where they are in life.

This entire mongering duration of 4 years, I felt sad all the time, nothing made me happy anymore. Ended up being diagnosed with clinical depression and general anxiety disorder after discussing it all with a therapist. Ultimately I have reached a point where I just can't be at peace for even a minute in a day. Even now, I'm suffering from insomnia and my escape seems to be a spa or a bar to numb my brain and stop the thoughts in my head, albeit for a short duration.

Not just mentally, but i have also faltered socially. Used to be a social butterfly with confidence, but now I have suddenly become an introvert. Can't go and chat up random girls or even guys. Hell, I have become awkward even with friends I have known for a decade. Even they can sense something is wrong with me and I have changed.

The guy is right, we truly exchange energies. And it looks like I'm a negatively charged electrode right now.

It's been fun to interact with mongers here and on discord, some wonderful and helpful people. Hell, it's been fun to meet some Indies, spa and bargirls too, but it's just killing me inside. I'm just not cut for this.

Is mongering wrong? Not at all. It's good for both the monger and the girl! It sustains households. I think it's perfect for high performing individuals who can keep their emotions in check. However, it feels like I'm not that guy yet. Maybe I will return to mongering one day if need be, once i unfuck my life.

I have tried to quit 2-3 times by now....but hopefully this is my last message here. I truly hope I can quit this for good and do something meaningful with my life. I don't know if I can ever get back to the way I was before I took this up, but I sure hope it doesn't get any worse. Sorry for the long rant, you guys are the only ones I can share this with.
Life is all about wants and needs. As long as sex is a need there is no guilt feeling. It is similar to a situation where you need food to eat and there is noone at home to cook or no food at home. The moment sex becomes a want this leads to addiction. I have seen husband's mongering for few months when their wife is pregnant and back to normal. I have also seen men mongering before marriage and back to being loyal and faithful. It is all in the mind. As long as you consider yourself going to a hotel to fill your stomach and coming back it is fine. No thoughts about what I did why I did which lead to guilt. It was necessary. Once you start getting to addiction then all the problems start. You cannot focus on anything and everything. Life becomes all about mongering. It is an individuals decision to monger or not to. But a need is a need and a want is a want. So lets monger based on need and not on wants to relieve stress, or to get over a bad day or to remove the loneliness in life. As the saying goes nothing is bad as long as it is a need and not a want. Rest is a choice for mongers to monger or not to.
 
Shoutbox
  1. hiyamickey:
    6 girls working at Reinella wellness, Address:6262 hwy7 unit #1 Vaughan, ☎️:905-851-4888
  2. Q Spa:
    🎉🍒Q SPA🎉🍒 ✅4465 SHEPPARD AVENUE EAST UNIT #27✅ SCARBOROUGH - BRIMLEY & SHEPPARD ☎️(647-727-2577)☎️Call Only Spa Landline ☎️(249-874-2628)☎️ ✅OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY✅ 💯✅TWO NEW ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY 💯✅EXCELLENT MASSAGE+ 💯✅EXTRA SERVICES AVAILABLE 🍒🍒Q SPA IS YOUR IDEAL MASSAGE + SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS SPA WITH YOUNG ASIAN SEXY PETITE GIRLS🍒🍒 💯💯REAL PICTURES OF GIRLS WORKING IN OUR SPA EVERYDAY💯💯 Available Girls Working Today: Selina🔥 - An exquisite petite & busty Yo
  3. Golden Sunshine Spa:
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  4. Soul Relax Spa:
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  5. Sparkling Spa:
    Sultry Nympho Susan is working at Sparkling Spa with Sweet Korean Emily today. Real pictures of Susan& Emily💯💯Call or text to book appointment 📲 ⚡🌟SPARKLING SPA⚡🌟 ✅50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8✅ 👌Markham, ON L3R 8X4👌 ☎️ (905) 604-8186 Spa Land Line☎️ ☎️ (437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phone☎️ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY
  6. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center : Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Tina ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament Lala,Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Helen , Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage Maggie , Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry,🏠 address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2☎️4376655510 🦵🦵👅👅🈵🈵👄👄
  7. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Anika , Student pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Michelle,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella, Taiwan girl DD Boobs Thai deep massage lily,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 .☎️4379857899🦵🦵👅👅👄👄🈵🈵
  8. Jenny’s Spa:
    🎉🍒JENNY’S SPA🎉🍒 ✅5170 DUNDAS STREET WEST✅ 👌ETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4👌 ☎️( 647-893-5196)☎️Call or Text ☎️( 437-888-3759)☎️Call Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅GRAND OPENING💯NEW GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥EXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNY’S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS🔥💯😘🔥❤️👌 🔥TWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥 💯REAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS💯 🔥TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: Cindy😘 - A stunning new massage girl f
  9. wonderspa:
    🌺welcome to wonder spa☎️416-5000-800,L6a4H8,open10 to10 on Sunday .we have 4young beautiful girls working everyday,Ensuit shower available 🍅,service queen Sunny friendly nice girl,providing deep tissue to relax massage and nice body slide🍅joey is very good looking,big breasted sweet sensual touch,strong to relax oils massage,really popular,give you comfortable warm time🔥🔥🌹
  10. Withme_Spa:
    💕💥at 4386 Sheppard Avenue east 💯💞💋 Sunday, ❣❤ Yoyo, 💋💋medium height and sexy build with shapely legs and ass. friendly, very good treatment and excellent finish 💋❣ Victoria,❤ beautiful Japanese lady with an erotic touch for excellent treatment 💞 Jessica, 💋slim, and sexy body, very pretty. High energy session in store for you 💖💋 Emily, 💕short to medium height, nicely rounded and curvy, enjoys giving erotic touch 💘💋 🔋 416 297-7488🔋
  11. AliceSpa:
    SUNDAY at 𝗔𝗟𝗜𝗖𝗘 𝗦𝗣𝗔, 4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough 𝟰𝟭𝟲-𝟮𝟵𝟴-𝟬𝟴𝟵𝟴:[/color] 3 Amazingly Hot Top Girls Today at Alice Spa. Open 10am to 9pm: JOJO (12pm-9pm): is a busty JAPANESE girl, nice DD Cup boobs, short, petite small body, pretty face AV S2tar, bbbj cim cof rim, special services available. LUCY (10am-9pm): is a young & busty Taiwanese cutie with natural D Cups, slightly curvy round ass, excellent
  12. gold__rose__spa:
    💐🏵at 1536 Warden Avenue 💯💞💋💥Sunday, 💞💗💋 Michelle 💗for traditional style treatment and good service, nicely toned body, strong, does very firm treatment, pleasant personality. 💐🌹 📳 647 346-8086📳
  13. Red_Pearl_Spa:
    💋at 4385 Sheppard Avenue east, unit 5🔺💋💋🔴Sunday, 💞💋Yoyo, 💓small curvy body and pretty, energetic and flirty, here for therapeutic treatment with relaxation+ 💋☎️ 647 352-1588☎️
  14. ForeverWarden:
    Sunday at 🫦❤️🔴🟥♾️𝓕𝓞𝓡𝓔𝓥𝓔𝓡 𝓢𝓟𝓐♾️🟥🔴❤️🫦2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough 𝟰𝟭𝟲-𝟴𝟬𝟬-𝟳𝟴𝟴𝟳: Bobo, Vivian & Cindy. Bobo is a small, slim and sexy lady, petite with all natural busty melons for your enjoyment. Vivian is an attractive slim Vietnamese honey with C Cups, who can sweeten your day with daty, bj and cfs Cindy is a slim beauty, 5’4”, natural C Cups
  15. HollywoodSpa:
    Sunday at 🎭𝗛𝗢𝗟𝗟𝗬𝗪𝗢𝗢𝗗 𝗦𝗣𝗔🎭, 4578 Yonge St, Unit 100, North York, ON: JUDY & YUKI ☎416-222-5554☎ JUDY is new today. YUKI is a slim & exiting, happy lady. Nice massage & services available. When you visit 🎭Hollywood Spa🎭, you will be treated with tender care and your visit will be a fulfilling one. Nice Massage, Young Pretty Girls. We have Chinese, Japanese, Korean & other attendants.
  16. SugarLoveSpa:
    Sunday at ❤️💙 💜⎝𝗦𝗨𝗚𝗔𝗥 𝗟𝗢𝗩𝗘 𝗦𝗣𝗔⎠💖💗💘: ANA & HANA. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York ANA is a young, short and sweet lady, 5’1 & 105 Lbs, very tight, with a small to medium booty. Ana is a versatile honey who provides great massage, & can accommodate your needs. HANA is a slim, sexy & very liberal Mexican lady with incredible services. Sugar Love Spa is an all new spa
  17. OrchidSPA:
    Today we have Beautiful Girls Mia & Eva 🤩Mia is a Slim Cute Asian Hot Girl. 🔥 Eva is Very Popular in the GTA. ( | ) Drop In and Enjoy a Satisfying Experience Today! OPEN: 10am to 10:00pm ~ Call/Text ⏩️ 437-220-6963 ~ Unit#103 3601 Highway 7, Markham, ON L3R 0M3
  18. lemon_tree:
    💛💫a discreet entrance at 4155 Sheppard Avenue east, unit 201💯💕💋Sunday, ❣💋 Cici... 💕small build, friendly and pretty,nice touch, with a lot of energy, service oriented, aka Coco 💖💋 📞 647 348-2899📞
  19. New Oriental Health Centre:
    🫦Happy & Nayla are in today 📞Call 📲 Text: (647) 381-2688 🍑 Happy is a very talented Korean Babe 💄Nayla Tall, Young, Beautiful & Curvy Spanish Girl 💋|| 🤗 Walk-Ins Always Welcome 📅 Open 8am til Late #26, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill.
  20. bnwellness_wilson:
    We have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young cute Lily 25’s with curve body and young fun Ivy 36DD with big buttocks open mind, sexy Coco and pretty GFE Lina are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 4163985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  21. Annie Spa:
    🎉🍒ANNIE SPA🎉🍒 ✅7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLE✅ 👌SCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6👌 ☎️ (647) 891-9688☎️ ☎️ (416) 291-8879☎️ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅NEW MANAGEMENT💯NEW GIRLS🔥🔥 🔥GORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: 🔥 Helen🥰Brand new very young university student from Hong Kong. Great massage skills with a wild flirtatious side willing to tease and please to bring you to satisfaction. Perky natural 34C breasts perfect for kissing and body slide
  22. luckywellness:
    Lucky Wellness Center 4379721888 295 Eglinton Ave E,Unit 7,Mississauga Yoyo and Mandy work
  23. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix Blossom Spa 🌹🌹🌹2 girls 🔥🔥🔥5124 Dundas St W Etobicoke☎️416-817-3366👍 New Japanese girl Nina ❤️ Natural Big Boobs 38 DD 😘 Hot body slide, super enjoyable😘😘😘😘Hot and sexy body, super body slide, very provocative service😘😘😘, professional super Suki deep tissue massage, has therapeutic effect to loosen bones and relieve muscle pressure and will bring you unexpected service effects, she will bring you a little surprise😍😍😍😍❤️You are welcome to make an appointment at any time
  24. EMSpa_schedule:
    Tomorrow's sneak peek : For Sunday February 23, 2025, our attendants will be Ada 🤗, Cici 🥰, Lucy ❤️, Ivy 😍 and Christina 🔥 Call 905-479-6668 to book!
  25. hiyamickey:
    7 girls working at Reinella wellness, Address:6262 hwy7 unit #1 Vaughan, ☎️:905-851-4888
  26. Suko 5Girls:
    Suko Spa schdule today on Saturday is with 7 lovely💓ladies💇 Nora, Michelle, Susan, Suki, Lisa, Jojo and Candy 🛣 420 ValleymedeDr, Richmond Hill, same plaza McDonalds 📞☎ 905-597-8880 ☎
  27. Sparkling Spa:
    ⚡🌟SPARKLING SPA⚡🌟 ✅50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8✅ 👌Markham, ON L3R 8X4👌 ☎️ (905) 604-8186 Spa Land Line☎️ ☎️ (437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phone☎️ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅NEW MANAGEMENT💯NEW GIRLS🔥SUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS🔥💯😘🔥❤️👌 🔥SEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Today’s Schedule is…🔥 Foxy -🔥Your new addiction at Sparkling Spa! A tall 5’7” sexy Korean girl with a wi
  28. New spring spa@:
    🌹🌹🌹sexy hot Singapore 💖 💖 Korean girls 👍working at Nu spring spa💋💋☎️416-669-8508🌹🌹
  29. Q Spa:
    Selina is back from holidays and working with sexy young service Queen Cici today 🔥🥰💯💦💯❤️ Call Q Spa ☎️(647)727-2577☎️SPA LANDLINE ☎️(249)874-2628☎️to book appointment with Selina or Cici💯👌💥 Duo four hand massage also available with Cici and Selina🔥💯Call for details and book appointment
  30. Endless Joy Spa:
    ✨✨✨✨✨[GRAND OPENING]✨✨✨✨✨ 💞Endless Joy Spa💞 🎇 (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565🎇10am-2am, New First Day Slim Sexy Korean Sanny, Slim Petite Chinese Vivi & Young Slim Sexy Chinese Faye
  31. Jenny’s Spa:
    🎉🍒JENNY’S SPA🎉🍒 ✅5170 DUNDAS STREET WEST✅ 👌ETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4👌 ☎️( 647-893-5196)☎️Call or Text ☎️( 437-888-3759)☎️Call Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅GRAND OPENING💯NEW GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥EXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNY’S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS🔥💯😘🔥❤️👌 🔥TWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥 💯REAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS💯 🔥TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: Apple😘 - Brand new girl from Taiwan ju
  32. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center : New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Doris ,Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Midi ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament Lala,Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage Maggie, Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ,🏠 address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2☎️4376655510 👅👅🦵🦵👄👄🈵🈵
  33. Moneylee:
    Full season Wellness center: beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Cici,Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Lucky, Student big boobs buttocks Vicky ,Young girl big breasted , young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Linda ,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 🏠 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 ☎️ 4379857899 👅👅🦵🦵👄👄🈵🈵
  34. wonderspa:
    🌺welcome to wonder spa☎️416-5000-800,L6a4H8,open10 to10.we have 4young beautiful girls working everyday,Ensuit shower available 🍅,new friendly nice girl CiCi,providing deep tissue to relax massage and nice body slide🍅Amy is Vietnamese very good looking,big breasted sweet sensual touch,amazing massage,very popular,must try🔥🌹
  35. AliceSpa:
    SATURDAY at 𝗔𝗟𝗜𝗖𝗘 𝗦𝗣𝗔, 4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough 𝟰𝟭𝟲-𝟮𝟵𝟴-𝟬𝟴𝟵𝟴. 4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough 416-298-0898 [/color] 3 Top Girls Today at Alice Spa. Open 10am to 9pm: AMY (12pm – 9pm) is a young, petite short & slim Taiwanese, former dance instructor, firm natural B Cups, pretty face, firm natural titis, super play good, bbbj, cim, rim, dfk, all services. ELLA is a small & curvy
  36. HollywoodSpa:
    Saturday at 🎭𝗛𝗢𝗟𝗟𝗬𝗪𝗢𝗢𝗗 𝗦𝗣𝗔🎭, 4578 Yonge St, Unit 100, North York, ON: COCO & SISI. ☎416-222-5554☎ COCO is an attractive attendant with nice massage skills & good services. SISI is a sweet slim beauty, 5’2”, with a beauty ass, excellent massage, and amazing services. Come and see why she is so popular. When you visit 🎭Hollywood Spa🎭, you will be treated with tender care and your visit will be a fulfilling one
  37. ForeverWarden:
    Saturday at 🫦❤️🔴🟥♾️𝓕𝓞𝓡𝓔𝓥𝓔𝓡 𝓢𝓟𝓐♾️🟥🔴❤️🫦 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough 𝟰𝟭𝟲-𝟴𝟬𝟬-𝟳𝟴𝟴𝟳: Lika, Sara & Cindy. Lika is our new JAPANESE girl. Come & have a taste of the exotic. Sara is young & slim with nice C Cups, trim waist, sexy bum and long hair. She is vary friendly uses her assets well. Tracy is an incredibly cute & pretty Japanese/Taiwanese mixed spinner, about 5’1”
  38. HolidaySpa:
    Saturday at 🌴😎🌅𝓗𝓸𝓵𝓲𝓭𝓪𝔂 𝓢𝓹𝓪🌅😎🌴3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough ☎️𝟰𝟯𝟳-𝟮𝟰𝟳-𝟭𝟭𝟵𝟵☎️: MAGGIE & NANA. Maggie is sweet, slim and very talented. Nana is a slim and very sexy Korean lady, very pretty and accommodating. Come and try, you will like. 🌴😎🌅HOLIDAY SPA🌅😎🌴 3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4 (Kennedy Rd & Steeles Ave E) Scarborough, ON M1V 4Y3 ☎️437-247-1199☎️
  39. SugarLoveSpa:
    Saturday at ❤️💙 💜⎝𝗦𝗨𝗚𝗔𝗥 𝗟𝗢𝗩𝗘 𝗦𝗣𝗔⎠💖💗💘: LUNA, SARA & TIFFANY; Evening: SOFIA. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON ☎ 𝟰𝟯𝟳-𝟯𝟲𝟱-𝟮𝟲𝟴𝟴 ☎ LUNA is a slim, VERY PETITE and capable Vietnamese beauty, nice natural 34C Cups. Luna can do everything. SARA is a beautiful Thai lady with C Cups, 160 Cms and 50 Kgs, with a full set of services to delight you.
  40. OrchidSPA:
    Today is Mia & Tiffany 🫦 Mia has Lovely Sexy Body ~ Provides a Smooth Full Body Massage 💄Tiffany is Young and Very Sexy Girl with natural 34C boobs 👄 Open: 10am to 10:00pm ~ Call/Text ⏩️ (437) 220-6963 ~ 3601 Highway 7, Unit#103, Markham
  41. Soul Relax Spa:
    ✨ Looking for a relaxing escape? ✅ Click Here Meet🌸Tina🌸Valentina🌸AlisaCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now ☎ 289 - 298 - 5662☎️ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! ✨
  42. Golden Sunshine Spa:
    ✨Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! ✅ Click Here Today🌸Cindy🌸Fran🌸Rebecca🌸Daisy🌸Nina Call us ☎ 905 - 265 - 2158☎️ Your ultimate service awaits! ✨
  43. Annie Spa:
    🎉🍒ANNIE SPA🎉🍒 ✅7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLE✅ 👌SCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6👌 ☎️ (647) 891-9688☎️ ☎️ (416) 291-8879☎️ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅NEW MANAGEMENT💯NEW GIRLS🔥🔥 🔥GORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: 🔥 Judy😘🔥Our new Asian massage girl Judy is a vision of refined sensuality, with a graceful figure and smooth, flawless skin that radiates warmth and allure. Her striking black hair frames her delicate features, and her poised elega
  44. bnwellness_wilson:
    We have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young cute Korean Hanna tall 25’s with curve body and young sweet Michelle 25’s slime open mind, young sexy Yoyo 36DD with big buttocks open mind and pretty GFE Lina are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 4163985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  45. luckywellness:
    Lucky Wellness Center 4379721888 295 Eglinton Ave E,Unit 7,Mississauga Mia and kiki work
  46. New Oriental Health Centre:
    🫦Happy & Nayla are in today 📞Call 📲 Text: (647) 381-2688 🍑 Happy is a very talented Korean Babe 💄Nayla Tall, Young, Beautiful & Curvy Spanish Girl 💋|| 🤗 Walk-Ins Always Welcome 📅 Open 8am til Late #26, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill.
  47. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix Blossom Spa 🌹🌹 Table shower body scrub ☎️ 416-817-3366 New New girl Anna is a young, beautiful, sexy figure with such nice and tempting skin. She is a favorite of men and knows how to enjoy their love. Mia big boobs 36D knows how to tease and caress her body, and the slide makes you unable to stop. You are welcome to come at any time. Walk in or make an appointment. There are plenty of parking spaces at the back door
  48. Neyan:
    ?
  49. EMSpa_schedule:
    Tomorrow's sneak peek: For Saturday February 22, 2025, our attendants will be Opal 🤗, Vicky 🍑, Lucy ❤️, Ivy 🥰 and Sophie 🔥 Enjoy! And call 905-479-6668 to book!
  50. Jack378:
    E and m
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