Lower back pain - help!!!!!

[mew2fling]

I cannot really remember when & how I first got/noticed my back pain. I think it was about 10 years ago when I first remember doing anything about it. I went to a physio and I remember her saying I was not sitting straight and from then on I sat with a 'phone book under one of my buttocks, but I can't remember which one. I think this fixed it for a while as I can't remember any distinct problems.
Then in 2000 sometime it again got to the point where it was unbearable. When I got out of bed in the morning I could hardly walk, if I drove for long periods of time I struggled to get out of the car. It was generally a real problem. I again went to the Dr about it, went to Osteo, Chiro and then ended up at a sports physio. They said I had severe muscle spasm in the lower back and I was also having a lot of pain in my hips which was put down to bursitis. I had massage, sonic treatment and electrical impulse treatment which seemed to relieve it. This did the trick for a while and then low & behold it comes back again.
At some stage I did eventually get the Dr to put me forward for an X-Ray but this showed nothing. Anyway, it's back with avengance & I am really sick of it!
I have lower back pain - my back feels very stiff, aches constantly and feels sore. This then radiates into both hips with the right being worse and they are aching constantly and give a bruised feeling if touched. Both buttocks often feel sore, although the right can be worse and then the pain goes down the back of the right leg. I have again been to a physio after my Dr said it wear & tear, live with it!! Aren't Dr's great - I'm 35 by the way!
The physio firstly tried manipulation for the facet joints which made it very sore afterwards. He then decided that manipulation was not possible until the muscles were more relaxed as they were in severe spasm. Massage works on it and after a massage session - which is very painful!! it feels looser at the time, worse the next day and then ok for a few days but gradually comes back.
We came to the conclusion that whilst this was working to an extent it does not last and does not get to what the cause of the problem is. He suggested an MRI to try and see what was going on. I have had that and surprisingly enough, there are no evident problems. Very slight degeneration of the last 2 vertebrae, but apparently nothing of concern. I was quite disappointed that nothing showed up, obviously pleased there was nothing wrong but then we didn't think there was anyway.
The next suggestion has been to see an anaethatist who specialises in pain management and possibly go along the lines of epidural to take the pain away. I really do want to get rid of the pain, however, I want to find the cause so that it can be dealt with. The physio has said that I have accentuated lordosis and an anterior pelvic tilt. As much as I want to get rid of the pain I am not for pumping myself full of drugs to see if it works without finding out the cause.
Have been thinking along the lines of whether there are any alternative/complimentary methods that may help. This does not immobilise me because I do not let it. I do a fair amount of horse riding, loads of walking and work at the stud where my horse is kept at the weekends which is hard, heavy work. Afterwards I'll be stiff but can usually manage to do everything. Walking I can do but find it hard work quite regulary to get one leg in front of the other. Due to my hips being stiff it feels like it is taking a lot of effort to move my legs. I struggle at work to sit comfortably as either my back is aching or the pressure from the chair on the back of my leg from sitting makes it very uncomfortable. The whole thing makes me feel tired as it's quite draining and irritable as I can't settle and get very fed up and irritated with the whole thing. How can I find out what the cause is to do something about it? Any other suggestions etc are all very welcome.

 

[iqeouuxripzincedp]

Hi Smashed Dragon as you've noticed I'm having a blonde moment and apologise for that! I did try to reply to you but something crazy happened and it all disappeared, I have to go and get dinner ready but promise to get back to you as soon as poss. I must point out that I am unable to give you personal advice as I have not seen you in person, but I can recommend some therapies if you like,
'speak soo'
Laura

 

[meshmesh]

Hi smashed dragon, it's chaos here as we've just eaten and the kids are going mad but I will try and pick up from where I left off[&:]. Right, there are quite a few therapies you could try. I must point out that lower back pain does not always signify a back problem and you should ask for a blood test and further investigation to rule out anything ominous. Don't panic, but it should be looked into. Therapies available to you could include reflexology, holistic massage, auricular therapy (magnetic seeds placed on acupuncture points on the ear), T.E.N.S, Iversion therapy ( a 'table' in which you feet are strapped and the table inverted to varying degrees, this relieves pressure on the spine, re-aligns the spine and is a great relaxant) infra-red therapy could also help.A series of back strengthening exercises could help as when we are in pain we tend to lean/veer to the side that is not painful hence causing mis-alignment of the spine and awkwardness, gentle specific exercises can help rebuild 'lazy' muscles and strengthen your back.Don't attempt heavy exercise as this may cause more problems. My worry is that you feel that you are not being listened to by your doctor, you are entitled to good health care and I would either ask for a second opinion or change your doctor, not easy nowadays but if you feel 'dismissed' you should change it. Always consult your doctor before you try any complementary therapies and if you feel uncomfortable with any treatment a therapist wants to give be strong and say no. Not trying to feak you out but caution should be observed, unfortunately with the rise in interest in comp therapies there are charlatons out there who offer cures, be wary of those. This reply is not as thorough as the one I 'lost' and probably sounds a bit doom mongery, that is not my intention, but with the chaos behind me I'm struggling to concentrate![]
Hope this helps a bit, I've been waffling on sooo long now I'm not even sure I've answered your questions!
Take care
Laura

You could look at Body therapies on this site apparently kinesiology is good, not genned up on it though........

 

[Riley]

Sorry just re-read your post and really I haven't touched on anything you said! It's difficult because without seeing you and talking face to face it's hard and un-wise to give personal advice. Some doctors offer a referral scheme to comp therapists (they seem to be rare!) but you could ask. I wouldn't like to comment on the epidural etc because of what I have already said! Sorry not been much help'
See you around HP and good luck
Laura

 

[Binu J]

You situation sounds very frustrating. As Laura says it is extremely difficult to give you solid sound advise without seeing you - back pain can be caused by so many things!
You mention your posture -have you tried anything like Alexander Technique. yoga or pilates? As you sound extremely active these may be something you can do "yourself" with the aid of a good instructor.


Jules

 

[devilman bravo]

Yes, the physio suggested pilates and I know the Alexander technique is used by a lot of riders for improving position. One of these could be worth a try and I have planned to do that. Was kind of holding back starting one until knew a bit more about what was wrong. As that's not looking likely then may try anyway!!
I have also considered recently going to see someone who has treat my dog for arthritis with laser accupuncture. She does humans as well and does accupuncture, homeopathy etc. She was good with my dog and I know someone else whoes dog does for hip dysplacia and has good reports. I was originally recommended to her by a vet that keeps her horse where I keep mine. So maybe worth a go.
Thank you for your replies. I was hoping to get some help before going completely mad!!!!

Michelle

 

[Marcia]

Hi Smashed dragon

I have experienced the same problem as yours for a year and thought it would never go. I went to an osteopath, but that didn't help me and when I have massage it is the same as you - painful the next day but then fine for a few days.

I saw a physio nearly weekly from November to February and she basically gave me exercises to do each day and she manipulated the areas, doing acupressure on the potent points and also I had acupuncture most weeks as her manipulation wasn't releasing the muscles enough. The acupuncture was brilliant and although sore afterwards, it left me without any pain for about a week. The physio spread the appointments out in January and I went whenever it was painful and the acupuncture then lasted three weeks. Well anyway I haven't been back since February and have felt great. Although this week, I have started to feel it really tense up and so have made an appointment to go back.

The exercises are from a really good book, which I will have to get you the title of as I can't remember - but the exercises, acupuncture and phsyio have helped me loads. I have also been quite conscious of my posture and have been strengthening muscles in my back, as my twisting muscles are extremely weak which is what the physio reckons is the problem as it builds up in my lower back. So since doing all this I have been painfree!

If you need anymore info from me then let me know.

Calmspirits

 

[madie]

Thank you for that, may go and try some accupuncture. If you know the title of the book that would be great.

 

[?Socially Awkward?]

You poor thing, Smashed Dragon. I had really bad pains similar to these for years and was eventually diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, which explained a lot when I looked into it more.

Calmspirits has said most of what I was going to. I also benefitted greatly from acupressure and the potent points are the ones that are tender in Fibromyaligia used in diagnoses. I was actually pain free for a while after treatments. (bliss).
There is another more serious condition called polymyalgia which is more an inflammatory thing than Fibro and may show up in blood tests which measure inflammation (ESR I think). This is treated by steroids. ( A bit nasty). The two seem quite linked though and both respond well to acupressure/acupuncture. I have used the points to very good effect on clients now (body reflexology), the effect is instant in most cases.

Internal adhesions can also cause severe back pain as the organs can get a bit tangled up and press on nerves. If you are a female, gynae problems can cause chronic back pain. You should perhaps ask for a laparoscopy if nothing else helps..

Reflexology has also helped me a great deal. If you live near me give me a call.

The acupressure book I've got is called 'Potent points' by Michael Gach and you can get it on Amazon.

Jan x

 

[mbt shoes online]

I'm sorry SmashingD - I've been putting this one off because I knew I could write a short posting on this. [sm=hidesbehindsofa.gif]

I finally got around to it, spent nearly an hour on it, only to loose it all.

I have a slight conflict between my mouse & a graphics pad I installed last night, but I think reality is that - it's a wet ware problem. [sm=banghead.gif]

You can email me about your back problem, as it sounds like no-one is getting to the root of the problem & a remission of the sypmtoms i.e. pain doesnt't mean 'problem solved'. []

And.

 

[freeekle]

Could you possibly be suffering with Ankylosing Spondilitus. My husband has this and it is most troublesome when you are in your late twenties early thirties. It is an arthritic condition of the spine. My husband always described it as though he had been kicked in the buttocks with the pain travelling down his leg. Like you he could hardly walk. I have written another piece earlier on this with regard to taking Cod liver Oil so I have copied again what I put on here. My husband is 60 now and has had 30 more or less pain free years after taking the cod liver oil, although you will find (if this is the problem) unlike most conditions it improves with age. I think cod liver oil is much more potent in the liquid form rather than the capsules. If you don't like the taste you could mix it with orange juice. One of the very important aspects of this condition is that you keep moving, rest does not improve the situation.

This is what I wrote earlier:

With regard to cod liver oil. My husband has a condition called ankylosing spondilitus (not sure of spelling) basically this is an arthritic condition of the spine. His father had this condition and was bent double. My husband inherited it, but for some reason the condition we are told isn't so severe now and he did the correct thing (although he didn't know it at the time) of keeping moving despite the pain so to look at him you wouldn't believe he had it. When he was in his late twenties early thirties he was in a great deal of pain and he read about taking cod liver oil. He tried this and within three months the pain had gone and he has taken it ever since. He does, on occasions, have trouble with back pain but it is fairly rare. He can take it off the spoon whereas I can only take capsules we also give it to our dog and she is frisky for a ten year old.

 

[Mimi CMT in OC]

X-Ray & MRI would have shown if the problem was Ankylosing Spondylitis.

The old myth that more men than women get this has been laid to rest. It seems that the ration is more like 50:50, except that women don't tend to follow the same typical pattern as men & they don't seem to suffer as much spinal fusion & pain. []

There's usually a genetic marker that they can test for called HLA B27. It's a bit like having rheumatiod factor in the blood, in that not everyone with the condition has the marker & not everyone with the marker has the condition. So they're not fool proof. [8D]

With Anky Spond it's the X-Ray findings that actually confirms the diagnosis, so I wouldn't worry about that one.

It does sound like a fairly common problem & can't help thinking that you may have been ill advised or not had the problem explained to you properly, so that you can best help yourself.

 

[Hubert Binienda]

You would have been told if Anky Spond was the problem. Whilst I have little faith in outpatient & chronic (long term) NHS care, having worked part time for them for 5 years. I am confident that you would have been told if there were any signs of AS and as I say x-ray & MRI scan would confirm or deny such a diagnosis. Sorry, I'll translate - it's extremely unlikely to be your problem.

I would say absolutely not the problem, but there are no absolutes!

Please be reassured that it does sound like fairly common stuff, although because it's gone on for so long then by now it's probably fairly nasty & difficult to deal with. From the history you give, I would already be considering using Western Acupuncture combined with osteopathy.

I know you've tried osteopathy before & don't know how long you gave it & what advice they gave & to be honest - I've given up apologising for any fellow health care professionals.

If you've been given extension (bending backwards - usually by lying on your front & oushing up with arms) exercises - I would advise that you stop doing them. These are often given out by physios, still taught to physios & medical in rheumatology lectures, but are based on very dubious research by McKenzie.

Stretches that are likely to help are flexion (knees to chest) & twisting, whilst lying on your back & yes it may 'pull' a bit, but then you know something is being stretched. Equally don't go mad - you can't rush the stretching of muscles that have probably, by now, will have physically shortened.

Other things to help yourself:

Keeping moving without overdoing it,

Hot bath with Epson Salts,

Massage with a pillow under your middle to prevent extending the lumbar spine.

You may find some useful info in my articles on the osteopathic & the holistic centre's site below and I will try & upload a better description of useful exercises or I can email them to you, but I think it's quite a big file.

And.

 

[CeeAvh]

I just had to reply as nearly everthing you have said applies to me! I have had my problem for about 18months now (a bit luckier than you!) I am also in my 30`s well, 36. My problem has always been in the middle of my back but since christmas has gone into the lower back, left bum cheek and then very very achy legs that i have trouble to move or walk. I had an mri scan but that was on my middle back and neck (that didnt actually hurt) and came back ok. Since the problems in the lower ive been to see a neuro chap and have just had another mri on the lower and next week i go for xrays. Then back to see him for results. I really hope that it does show something (you know what i mean- not wishing for it to be really) its just that i would like to know what im dealing with so that i can fix it and get on with my life! Its the not knowing what it is thats worse because you know that it hurts but sometimes it seems that others dont really beleive it. The only way i seem to cope at the mo is loads of pain killers ( co-codamol) they seem to make me feel drunk, and diclophenac things and alsorts. For months i fought against taking them cause i dont really agree with taking tablets but now i find myself not really managing without them! The next thing also on the list is a referral to a pain clinic too. Ive bin told about the epidural but i dont yet know much abot it so any info you get will be most helpful. I do hope to get this sorted out soon im an awful person to live with sometimes and friends say that ive changed and can be quite grumpy! (that doesnt help when you are feeling low!!!) Anyhow ive rattled on long enough now- good luck to you and if you have any tips please share them.

 

[Sharon Hambright]

I was the same when I was told by the neuro that there was nothing wrong. I was quite upset as the two weeks prior it has been really bad and I was really hoping that there would be some hope come out of the scan, but there wasn't. It's difficult to put because I'm obviously glad there was nothing wrong, but the Dr and Physio didn't think there was anyway. I have still to find out more about the pain management thing. I have now got an appt date but am not very keen on the epidural, steroid, pain killer route and really want to look at trying some alternative things first. I just wish I knew what was causing it and then I could work on that to try and sort it out. At the moment I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. I know exactly what you mean about feeling grumpy. It really gets to me sometimes and makes me very tired and irritable. I really find it difficult at work to sit comfortably and fidget like mad!!

 

[Brother Handcannon]

Hi Smashed D

Did you try the acupressure idea.

Do you think it might be fibro' or poly myalgia, Anahata. Do you find anything helpful for polymyalgia. I havve a client with this who is really suffering at the mo. Will put a seperate post.

Iceni

 

[ohioisforluvers]

Icena - I have not tried anything yet. Am still considering what to do. May take my MRI scans to the physio and see if he can see anything muscular. Also need to contact my insurance company and see what I am covered for!

I have had an e-mail from someone regarding the effects of acidic foods on arthritis. It says that the acid from some foods will dissolve the calcium in the body and may lead to arthritis - or if you have arthritis certainly won't help. I do not have this although it does run in the family and it was one of my concerns. Presumably with not having arthritis then cutting out acidic foods (this includes wine, can't cut this out!!!) won't help. Anyone know anymore on this?

 

[chinesetattoo]

Re. The acid food thing - yes it does tend to cause inflammation in those that are sensitive to them. Citrus fruits are a particularly common problem for some. Arthritis simple means joint inflammation, but that doesn't mean they have degenerated (the MRI will have shown this). But you must get the offending joints moving ortherwise they will. []

It will be inflammation around the small facet joints at the back of the spine that is causing your back pain - so yes - you may be sensitive to acidic foods. Grains such as wheat is another possibility, although folks sensitive to grains usually have fatigue & brain fog (difficulty concentrating) type symptoms.

If the inflammation & pain is severe, then the muscles will tighten up or spasm and keep the hole thing going as this will severely restrict the inflammation from draining away from the area. []

It's not so much the foods that are the problem, as that some of us seem to react to them. A good short term measure would be to cut out the likely culprits & have an allergy test with a VEGA or BEST system (there are others). A skin prick test from the GP and they know that there not very reliable.

I would take a look on the allergies forum. [:-]

Bye for now.

 

[mansaf]

hi smashed dragon im'e in the same boat as you i jarred my back at work but my local gp just gave me co-proxamol and told me to come back if it got worse which it did but i contiued to work cable guy buy the way for six weeks feeding on the pain killers untill i collapsed at work in agony but struggled to install the ladys house that i was working on because she was so ****ed about in the past i then was redirected to a private osteopath through the company health insurance . i was given an epidural manipulation under general anasthetic which i think actually agravated the problem then three weeks later i had spinal decompression surgery which apart from the initial pain worked wonders no more sciatica great!!! but due to the line of my work after a stint in the office i had to lift some things as you know trying to get out of the sitting or lying down position became almost inpossible like you mentioned the car you get about 3 inches up and it feels like someone has stuck you in youre spine with a knife that is the only way i know how to describe it so what do you do sit down or straighten up it's that painfull ? i seriously need to get an mri scan which x rays cant touch but you may need a dye injection which doesent heart realy hope you get sorted soon cos i am so ****ed off with all this surgery by the way im'e 33 so in'e quite old aswell hope this helps

 

[inquisitive_1]

Are you sure it was an osteopath you saw? [sm=scratchchin.gif]

Manipulation under a general anaesthetic is not the sort of thing an osteopath would normally do, unless they are perhaps a medical doctor or consultant also.

Most UK osteopaths perform such manipulations on a regular basis. It is a skill that needs regular practice to maintatin it, so ostoe's don't require the patient to be anaesthetised. There are, of course, exceptional cirumstances. Although, there is good arguement to suggest that it is safer if the patient is conscious & can maintain their muscle tone. [sm=scratchchin.gif]

Also, may have misread, but did you have surgery without having an MRI first? [&:]