Dangerous?

[Anthony H]

Beavis, everyone doesn't share your tolerance for risk. Also there is a difference between acknowledging risk and being afraid. An intelligent person likes to know exactly what he is getting himself into. If I am going to a bad neighborhood I like to know just how bad the neighborhood is and what risks to be watching for (drugs, gangs, racial violence, etc). I think some of you choose to ignore the risks- for whatever reason.

Many of those tough looking Mexican hombres in the cowboy hats that you see in the Zona bars hanging out are gangsters. There have been documented incidents (ie police raids, shootouts) right around the tourist area. We have yet to see any drug violence in the zone, but the potential is clearly present. You can fool yourself, but please don't bullshit others about the risks. Everyone is not as risk tolerant as some of you.

Bogota, Colombia is actually less violent than TJ these days. TJ is like Bogota was 10-15 years ago right now. New Orleans is also safer than a Mexican border town. That's what I mean. Maybe you are not being completely honest with yourselves.

 

[man demon]

this is an excellent point. I think some of the really panicky attitudes we see here are started by primarily suburban americans who have never been to the hood. I have never witnessed anything in tj that is as rough as the shit that goes down in chicagos roughest neighborhoods!!

 

[systemofadownfan]

It will be 5th-6th October, I think.

I'd definetely be interested in meeting up with someone else if anyone is interested.

 

[TheDarkFox]

Agreed. I have lived in Mexico for almost two years and vacationed here for probably well over a half a year total. I also did business in some of the roughest areas of LA for over two years before I realized that I couldn't justify the risks.

I will take the darkest, meanest streets of Mexico over an alley in Compton or South Central any day of the week.

I personally knew a Budweiser guy that got half of his face blown off by a M-80 homemade bomb for a case of King Cobra malt liqour.

Those motherfu_kers out there...they kill and maim for fun.

 

[Lebeautemps]

Name one city anywhere in the world that isn't dangerous? "City" and "Dangerous" are two words that go together like "Peanut Butter" and "Jelly" or "Redneck" and "Copenhagen". Personally I felt much safer in Bogota, Colombia than New Orleans, Louisiana. If you go looking for trouble in any city you will find it but visiting the venues that bring money into any 3rd world country will be the most protected areas. I visited Nuevo Laredo during the peak of the crime wave and had no trouble. Learn the meaning of the word respect and practice it. By carrying out this action it will be downright rewarding in any country.

 

[crc]

Dont drive at night and stay within the block where AD is.
Best to go with a taxi $5

 

[Kara]

Kittyfreak wrote:

So have ours. Sampson lives in TJ, Killit either lives in TJ or goes everyday, I go about every two weeks or so, and DariusX walks so-called dangerous area. I don't think any of us feel TJ is anymore dangerous than any big city in the US, or rather any 'red light' area in the US?

When the state department puts out warnings, it's not for mongers who visit red light districts or who are sex tourists. We mongers assume a little bit more of a risk than the average tourist.

If I really thought TJ was dangerous I wouldn't go.....I have family I have to take care of.

 

[tera_duke]

Going way back to the original message,...

Paulie, when are you going? I think it's always safer to go wth someone. I am heading down the weekend of 10/11 - 10-12...

Daxter

 

[BoomBoom]

KFI think you made your point well, and there is plenty of media and our own state department to back you up. You did say that it is very dangerous and I respectfully disagree. I go fairly often, maybe twice a week, and base my opinion on my experiences, which is far different from what I would think if I went by the media. Out of hundreds of trips I have never been threatened, mugged or robbed. I have never felt that I was in danger, so if someone asks my opinion I will say it is not dangerous.

They can get the sensationalistic rubbish from the media if they like, they can get info from people who frequent TJ here.

I have been hassled by the cops, but I don't show fear and they have never given me a ride around. I bribed my way out of a couple tickets for $20 each, but if I knew I was in the right I didn't give them shit.

 

[mann54]

Please recall that this thread started with a question from an out of town monger asking whether TJ is safe. I think my responses have been both reasonable and informed. It is not exactly a stretch to say that TJ is not safe. There have been numerous incidents in or near the tourist area. I actually have cited stories from major newspapers and the State Department, not just my personal opinion, to support this. A person can balance that information with personal observations from other mongers and make their own judgment call. I think that Paulie42 and others deserve to be well informed. But, again, that is just my opinion. To each his own.

PS- Though TJ is dangerous I would not tell anyone not to visit because of the violence. But, I live in LA, the "home of the drive-by shooting" and the "gang capital of the world" so my tolerance for violence and civil unrest (ie machine gun toting soldiers and cops walking around, corrupt cops asking for bribes) is probably higher than someone from a small town or the suburbs.

 

[ssssss]

Killit wrote:

Good reply Killit. If you feel Tijuana is a war zone, just stay home. I know I wouldn't go to any true war zona, just because I wanted some pussy....that's just too dangerous.

If you ask me TJ has been just about the same all these years. You always had corrupt cops, drugs, thieving gang-bangers, and TJ never been that friendly to guys from Kansas.

But in you stay in the zona, don't get drunk, behave yourself to a certain degree, take a cab back to and from the border......then nothing should happen to you. I have yet to run into a cartel gang member with a gun. I have yet to know anybody from these boards to get kidnapped.

But I have notice more negative news regarding TJ, and most of those stories are the same ones repeated over and over again as more news outlets cover TJ now.

Now I got to go to San Diego right now, and if I have time I'll make a trip to TJ, and I have no fear whats so ever...it's going to be like a trip to Disneyland, and if you don't see me post again.......well that means I was wong and I may have been kidnapped, and perhaps killed, because no one would pay my ransom.........but I think I have a pretty good chance of making it back alive?

Fuck those yellow journalism stories, and same goes for the state department telling me not to visit the zona, because it's too dangerous!!!

 

[Medori]

I have been going to TJ since 1989 (and the Zona since 1995). In that time there have been many ups and downs in regard to TJ safety. 2007-2008 has been yet another "down" time for TJ. As a result, I am more cautious and go less often. I anticipate that things will eventually turn around.They always do.

Look at it this way. In LA most gang violence only directly effects gang members and those who are around gang members. People who don't live in gang areas are almost never the victims of gang violence in LA. That doesn't mean I am comfortable strolling around in Compton or Watts, though it would probably be relatively safe for me to do so.

Same concept for TJ. Considering the place is a war zone right now, many mongers may choose to avoid or limit their activities there. To each his own. mpnet is for sharing information. What you do with that information is up to you.

 

[The Manipulator]

kittyfreak,athlonnx and anybody else who go to TJ and believe its violent why do you still go?(There's no gun to your head to make you go?If you want cheap pussy you got CL?)

Kittyfreak trust me I am all about safety but most mongers on this board are only in the zona for a few hours and on the buss days of the week.(friday and saturday nights)I don't think any drug cartel is going to blow up AB,CC or HK.


Kittyfreak :TJ is a very violent place. The violence will most likely not touch a monger on a trip to the Zona


Kittyfreak: While Mexican citizens overwhelmingly are the victims of these crimes, this uncertain security situation poses risks for U.S. citizens as well. Thousands of U.S. citizens cross the border safely each day, exercising common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas

I am going to stay this common-sense well keep you out of trouble,but like I sometime hear on these boards mongers get to drunk are start thinking with there little head and trouble comes.(Like this example, I find it funny mongers scream TJ dangerous but I see alot of mongers do this mostly buy themselves: the street people at the corner down from AB where they try an get you to go to the massge place are to a differnet club. I see mongers follow these guys to where ever they take them to.All it takes is 1 of them to grow a brain cell deicied to take you to a place out of the way and your fucked are have you hope in a car thats going to some place for escorts and you find yourselve in a empity apartment with a bench of guys beating the shit out of you and stealing your money.)

 

[MIL HOUSE MD]

True. True.

 

[HeavyNinja92]

i dont know how true athonnx is but the last i went to TJ my buddy and i got shaken down by the cops. i lost about $40 and my bud a couple of hundred dollars since he didnt find a girl he liked he didnt spend much.

we have been to tj numerous so this is no deer caught in the headlights kinda of thing. we were just picked up at ramdon by a pair of cops who wanted extra money.

so id say watch out for the cops mostly

 

[john henric]

The newspapers are not reliable. The government is not reliable. What passes for reliable these days? Some guys shooting the shit on an anonymous message board? TJ is a very violent place. The violence will most likely not touch a monger on a trip to the Zona- but yes it is much more risky than life on the other side of the border and much more caution is in order if you choose to visit TJ. I am more concerned about the low life corrupt cops than the low life criminals.

 

[imsooocool]

Fuck the State department! What do they want me to do, calls Craig's List in San Diego? Well I think everybody should take the State Department seriously, but at the same time realize "Travel alerts" have been used as political tools to make other countries play ball, and in fact The US did do that to Mexico a few years back, claiming Mexico didn't take their "war on drugs seriously.

So what happens is high officials from the governments talk to each other, Mexico will call the US and say, WTF did you issue that warning for, your going to kill tourism in Mexico. The two countries agree to take certain steps, and the US rolls back it's "travel warning, to the less dangerous "travel alert, but in reality nothing has changed...the same danger or lack of danger persists.

The same bullshit applies to prescription drugs we are told not to buy prescription drugs in Mexico, because the US can't verify the quality of drugs, and many drugs are fake. When in reality drugs in Mexico are perfectly fine, and cost up to 2/3 less in Mexico.....so who is the State Department protecting, the drug companies or it's citizens?

What we notice the people who go to TJ a lot or live there is that the drug lords, and the killing are nowhere near the zona, and if anybody is being kidnapped it's not the average mongers, it's people who are in the drug, or smuggling trade, or CEO types.....people who have a lot of money, and people who don't want the police alerted.

That travel alert has been in place a few years now, nothing is really different.

 

[smithers]

I love the way they slant things, like this "However, foreign visitors and residents, including Americans, have been among the victims of homicides and kidnappings in the border region."

They fail to mention that these Americans are Mexican/Americans that are wealthy and have business ties to Mexico.....there are no random tourist murders or kidnappings....NONE. The Asian guy was involved in business in Rosarito as well.

 

[coolade]

This report was issued by the US State Department The bold writing was highlighted by me- not the state department.
Mexico

April 14, 2008

This Travel Alert updates information for U.S. citizens on security situations in Mexico that may affect their activities while in that country. This supersedes the Travel Alert for Mexico dated October 24, 2007, and expires on October 15, 2008.

Violence Along The U.S.-Mexico Border
-------------------------------------

Violent criminal activity fueled by a war between criminal organizations struggling for control of the lucrative narcotics trade continues along the U.S.-Mexico border. Attacks are aimed primarily at members of drug trafficking organizations, Mexican police forces, criminal justice officials, and journalists. However, foreign visitors and residents, including Americans, have been among the victims of homicides and kidnappings in the border region. In its effort to combat violence, the government of Mexico has deployed military troops in various parts of the country. U.S. citizens are urged to cooperate with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways.

Recent Mexican army and police force conflicts with heavily-armed narcotics cartels have escalated to levels equivalent to military small-unit combat and have included use of machine guns and fragmentation grenades. Confrontations have taken place in numerous towns and cities in northern Mexico, including Tijuana in the Mexican state of Baja California, and Chihuahua City and Ciudad Juarez in the state of Chihuahua. The situation in northern Mexico remains very fluid; the location and timing of future armed engagements there cannot be predicted.

Armed robberies and carjackings, apparently unconnected to the narcotics-related violence, have increased in Tijuana and Ciudad Juarez. Dozens of U.S. citizens were kidnapped and/or murdered in Tijuana in 2007. Public shootouts have occurred during daylight hours near shopping areas.

Criminals are armed with a wide array of sophisticated weapons. In some cases, assailants have worn full or partial police or military uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles.

U.S. citizens are urged to be especially alert to safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. While Mexican citizens overwhelmingly are the victims of these crimes, this uncertain security situation poses risks for U.S. citizens as well. Thousands of U.S. citizens cross the border safely each day, exercising common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas of border towns during daylight hours. It is strongly recommended that travelers avoid areas where prostitution and drug dealing occur.
Criminals have followed and harassed U.S. citizens traveling in their vehicles, particularly in border areas including Nuevo Laredo, Matamoros, and Tijuana. There is no evidence, however, that U.S. citizens are targeted because of their nationality.

Whether you choose to visit TJ these days is dependent on what you consider an acceptable level of risk. Tijuana is pretty much a war zone between ultra-violent drug cartels and police. Like many war zones around the world, it may seem quiet but you never know. Also consider that the Zona Norte is a seedy area of a crime infested town and is operated by and frequented by local criminals. The possibility of drug violence in the Zona is a very real concern. Be aware.

 

[Nicole]

Well two major things here:

I believe the $5 taxi fair is what got you labeled as a sucker
and
you put links up to stories about Tijuana as if they were true, because they were in the paper....

It is good to be cautious and try to be as safe as you can. Glad you made it home safely.