compensation case clients

[RicJoaaooi]

Hi,

I think most people would take the word "cure" to mean 100% cure of the presenting symptoms and its causes, whereas "helps with" and "relieves" and "used for" leaves us a comfort zone for legal purposes. Sadly, there are many "cold cures" over the counter at the chemists and nobody minds, but when it's one of us, all hell breaks loose if we dare suggest the 4-letter C-word...

 

[|Chris]

i agree, suzanne et al,

i dont think any of us think we cant *cure* BUT, we are totally not *allowed* to say we can. its the sign of the times we live in. AND if the general public believe that a certain therapy *cured* them and tell folk, then thats all the better... certainly better than us saying we can cure a certain condition, and perhaps not being able to... it must happen!

there is nothing wrong with intimating cure though )

 

[woodysdeath]

Suzanne. You make a good point. We have just spent ages putting together a booklet on complementary medicine that is going to be handed to suitable patients by the doctors at the local surgery. We have had to go through everything in it with a fine tooth comb in order to make sure there are no claims to cure in it. We have had to use the kind of words you mention and say things like 'it has been found to be beneficial', 'it may help' etc etc.

In fact if you look in books on therapies and on other literature you will see that this is normally the case.

 

[oh wow]

Hi All

I too believe that you have to be extremely careful of how we word things, in fact if you look in most of the code of ethics and practice of the various governing bodies and associations it does state that the word "cure" is not to be used. We all know that we help/cure people of their aliments in either a holistic or physical manner but it has taken years for the medical profession to accept and understand some of our therapies with the understanding that we cannot claim anything medical (even the wording on aromatherapy products must be so) or claim to cure, so why threaten years of trust building over a meaning of a word!

In the end we all know what we can do and it doesn't belittle anything about the various therapies, after all we are complementary.

Love and light

 

[Susan C]

I always use the words 'can relieve the symptoms of...' as relief can be temporary or permanent and it's often just the symptoms that bother us, not the problem itself.

Lesley

 

[nlpuhkqg]

Sorry - my previous Posts on this subject were based on the grand assumption that most of us on HP work from a Holistic perspective.

Whilst the medics have long held the view that Health is an absence of symptoms, I thought that I was amongst those that held a different view.

Whilst we may not be ill, for many, we neither have optimum health! [&:]

I agree that we can do much to help others, to which they may even say that we have changed their life, healed or even cured them. It's another thing to actually believe that!

We can only be catalysts for their 'healing' and it can only be they that 'heal'.

We cannot make someone better & therefore we cannot heal or cure. To believe that we can is no more than an ego trip and will most likely be interpretted by others as arrogant. Bearing in mind that most of our work is from word of mouth, then I advise a reality check.

All we can do is our best & let others sing our praises.

And.

 

[mariwen]

Now I know why we work so well together.[sm=1kis.gif]

Nicely put.

 

[WilLineuai]

With all respect Paul I do not think that leaking pipes and broken cars can be compared with the complexeties of the human body/mind/spirit!!!!

I think we have been down this road before with you saying that some courses are not as good as others and I would agree with you. I am not going to get into a competition of saying who is the best therapist and who gets better results as I don't see the whole thing that way.

As long as you are happy with what you do and your clients are too then that is all that matters.

 

[Lloyd J]

hi paul,

i agree to an extent with what you say but i have to disagree with your likening the human body to a car or washing machine... if that were the case, we would have huge human scrap heaps!

the human body is much more intricate than machinery and as such, we and doctors cant profess to *cure* anything, as such... its all relative to the human and its mind that we are professing to cure.

yes, we can improve... you even admit to that
"I do look at each of my patients dysfunctions as something I can sort out or at least improve and yes I do have a high success rate"
but humans do tend to repeat the damage and so, a permanent cure to muscular/ skeletal problems is often very hard to achieve... as i say, a car engine that repeatedly gets the same problem is often replaced!

 

[BlackRock113]

Morning all,

I don't feel qualified to post here really, as i'm not a therapist of any kind. However, I decided to add my two pennies worth from the 'non qualified' side of the human race.

I too would err on the side of caution when it comes to claiming to 'cure'. The human body is absolutely amazing but we humans are, in the main, creatures of habit. If we've damamged ourselves once - you can guarantee we'll do it again in exactly the same way / place at some time in the future, before we break the habit that caused us to do this.

Now, I know that massage can cure a muscular condition, and repeatedly too however, in this world of 'sue for everything you can get' and 'each man for himself' (whether we like it or not that's what many people are like today - present company excepted of course - all HPers that i've read on here are the complete opposite to that), then to claim a 'cure' for something is opening yourself up to being sued at some point. Let's face it, if a burglar can get compensation because he gets hurt by the owner of the place he's stealing from, then a therapist can get sued for claiming to 'cure' if the condition recurs!

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject folks, have a good day all and keep smiling - it makes people wonder what you've been up to at the weekend!

Love
Lorraine
xx

 

[stephenie duncan]

I would shoot any of my students who claimed to be able to 'cure' a problem (well maybe shooting is a bit harsh
'Cure?' As has been already said ....what is a cure?
Is it a relief of symptoms (reduction/ removal of pain) which afterall is (normally) why someone would seek help or is it the removal / reduction of the factor (intrinsic or extrinsic) which are 'suspected' to be the cause of the problem.? Or both?
Can a therapist 'cure' a strained muscle???
Can they 'stick' the damaged ends together?
Can they remove all the damaged tissues and resultant exudate?
cos that's the only way it can be 'cured' (so that it's back to how it 'used to be)

Course they can't
In this case
All the therapist can do is help optimise the healing process (to let it continue BY ITSELF efficiently) and then help optimise (that word again) the result 'repair' so the the re-risk of injury (amongst other things) is reduced
It's the body that does all the hard work
If someone has problems due to a poor posture are they 'cured' by telling them to 'sit up straight'? The massage therapist would attempt to analyse to troublesome muscles (the skeleton only goes where the muscles put it) freeing up the tight ones and helping strengthen the weak ones (by whatever techniques they have at their 'disposal') but would this be sufficient to 'cure' the problem? Again all the therapist has done is 'optimise' the functioning of the muscles so the body is better able to do what it is supposed to ('sit up straight') so it still needs to be 'shown what to do' (re-education exercises) so it can 'cure itself'
Basically what I am attempting to say is it doesn't matter what the therapist does in a treatment, if the client doesn't take at least partial responsbility in 're-training' their 'dysfunction' (again, by following after-care advice) any changes made during a treatment are going to be very short lived.
It is therefore impossible for a therapist to 'cure' without at least some help from the client. Since the therapist cannot be 100% sure that the client will do all that is asked, in the manner required they cannot 'guarantee' a 'cure', in much the same way as a PT cannot 'guarantee' to get you into shape (cure?) because they don't know what you are doing when they are not with you.
Best trainer in the world + eating pies = fat
Best therapist in the world + poor posture 'habits' = back ache


I therefore do not believe any therapist should claim to be able to 'cure' since they are too dependant upon factors beyond their control
IMHO of course Flame away

 

[jandy - Spanks the Yanks]

No flames here! Couldn't agree more, but think have probably made that all too clear.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Dana1981]

Hi DFNU

Welcome to the forum

Yes there are limitations to what any form of therapy can do and yes most of the time we work with the body to help it to do what it should have done properly in the first instance and sometimes we work against it to force something to happen the body is not happy to allow naturally.

Muscular sprains and strains are our bread and butter, I seem to spend more time breaking down old scar tissue than anything else but yes it is up to the patient to receive the treatment and advice and put it into action.

At the end of the day we all offer a service which must be defined in some way so when someone has x&y dysfunctions they know what type of therapy is applicable to that type of injury.

If all therapist state there form or forms of therapy cannot sort out any dysfunctions then there must be a lot of miracle workers around or a lot of overpriced con merchants so which is it???

 

[Silly Turtle]

"At the end of the day we all offer a service which must be defined in some way so when someone has x&y dysfunctions they know what type of therapy is applicable to that type of injury"

Couldn't agree more and it has been
National Occupational Standards for Remedial and Therapeutic Massage (Government stuff not VTCT ITEC BTEC or whoever) is now defined and states the criteria as being
Unit CH- M1
CH-M1 Assess the needs of the client
Elements of competance being
CH-M1.1 Evaluate and process requests for massage therapy
CH-M1.2 Prepare to asses the client
CH-M1.3 Assess the client
CH-M1.4 Agree action with client

Unit M2 Treat the client and give guidance on self-care
Elements of competance being
CH-M2.2 Plan the treatment with the client
CH-M2.2 Provide treatment
CH-M2.3 Advise the client on self care
CH-M2.4 Evaluate the effectiveness of the treatment and self care

the scope for CH-M2.4 (Evaluate effectiveness etc.) goes on to state
(Outcome : "improvement in the clients health, effective functioning and well being")
It does NOT require a 'CURE'.

If the Government guidelines for the profession do require the therapist to be able to 'CURE' (just improve) why do you think it is necessary ?

Ps
Teacher head now
"Muscular sprains and strains are our bread and butter"

Muscles .......strain
Ligaments ....sprain LOL
I could go on to dispute 'breaking down scar tissue" but I'll leave that one for now

 

[GenderS]

Hi DFNU

Cure is not my definition it is the dictionaries expression of what a therapist does when they apply therapy, according to the dictionary my title as a remedial massage therapist equates to:
Remedial - to remedy, a means of curing, counteracting or relieving disease, troubles etc.
Massage - rubbing and kneading the muscles, etc., as curative treatment.
Therapist: specialist in a particular type of therapy. (Therapy: any treatment designed to relive or cure an illness or disability.)

Does your teachers head not feel that tendons can become sprained as well as ligaments?

 

[hotguy101]

"Does your teachers head not feel that tendons can become sprained as well as ligaments?"
Sorry?.............I seen no mention of tendons in your previous statement ................however..........................since you ask.......................
NO
Tendons are part of the musculotendinous unit and therefore i 'feel' that they too are strained
'Luckily' I am not alone
The followin Medical authorities........
http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/ortho/Pediatric_Sprains_and_Strains.htm
http://www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/strain_sprain/strain_sprain.htm#strain_a
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000041.htm
http://www.hughston.com/hha/a.strain-sprain.htm
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=15255
http://www.robeks.com/Library/Document01.asp?PT=D&PID=95

all seem to agree..............phew !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Janet]

I have to admit to being confused about this when I read Paul's post. I was taught that a sprain applied to ligaments only.

 

[The Wizzard]

The feel of the effect is generally the same when you work a damaged tendon or ligament or often both since injuries often include both tendons and ligaments in the same site, what you find in the belly of the muscle is something else so I tend to lump fibrous tendons and ligaments into the sprain category and the more flexible contractive tissue into the strain category as far as the treatment goes.

I do appreciate that it is not the anatomically correct terminology but as is often the case what you are taught in the classroom does not always bear out in the real world of treating these dysfunctions, the same way a range of movement taken from a lifeless corpse on the anatomists table is often quite different than what you find in a healthy active individual with a good range of articulation.

 

[RUIFSVIESIA]

where or where is this post going!

SallyB if you are still here do let us know how it pans out...

T
x

 

[Liri Poop]

All depends on your opinion as to whether or not a massage therapist can claim to cure
IMHO
I think SallyB is entirely correct in her general apprehension as to not only being able to claim to 'cure' but also to put a time scale on it.
'Improve current condition' .............fine, even putting an approximate timescale on this ..fine but since a 'cure' will be only a subjective state based on others 'opinion' ... well that's an entirely different matter. At what stage will the client consider themselves 'cured'? When the pain goes? When they can get back to sport? When they can in and out of a car without their back hurting?
What was their condition prior to the accident (Objective not Subjective). This would be impossible to establish if they had not had a fully documented and thorough examination prior to the incident.
"I've got one shoulder higher than the other"
Was it always like that and you've only just noticed?

Questions questions..........
I'm sure we ALL agree that manual therapy is not an 'exact science' so how can EXACT results within an EXACT timeframe be predicted?