when clients won't let themselves heal

Susan

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i have a client i saw last night who is a cyclist and runner. he has had calf cramping issues for 13 yrs. he decided it's going to be fixed this year or else he will stop racing. the cramping is a compartment synd type of pain. he was check for it a couple years ago, and the test was negative. he is getting massage twice a week by me and another MT. he is also seeing a rolfer who trained with jeff spencer for some other technique. spencer is a DC who worked with lance armstrong. now he is thinking of contacting spencer for a treatment with him. the problem is not electrolytes. he stretches all the time as well as self massage. i've done ART on him, and he does not like it. it's not painful enough for him. :roll: pain only comes when he is on the bike. running is fine. knots are in flex hall, flex digit, and post tib. however they aren't that bad.

here is the kicker...

it's mental. he is going to do a 80 mile ride this morning. i told him good luck and i hope this will help. he said, "oh i'll cramp on the ride." i told him to be positive. he said,"i'm positive i will cramp on the ride." i was shocked. he just sealed his fate. i believe in the power of thought. what you project out into the universe is what you will get. what do you do about people like this? he is wasting his money with that mentality. on the table he said sometimes he feels like shoving a kitchen knife in his calves, then go to the ER and have them really look in there to see what the problem is. :shock: :shock: :shock:
 


If you think his pain is mental, You could suggest he read the book, "The Mindbody Prescription" by Dr. John Sarno. (Maybe even buy a copy for your lending library for him to borrow). If he's not interested in the mind-body connection, then try to separate yourself emotionally from his choices. Just give him the massage, and release yourself from the outcome. If you find that's impossible, you may choose to stop seeing him as a client. That's your right, too. We don't have to work with everybody, especially those people who's beliefs/behaviors strongly clash with our own.
 


i'm asking for advice and venting all at the same time. :lol:

i've only seen him twice, but have known him for years. he is a fairly obsessive guy. i suggested getting the compartment test again. he told me how they did it and he had to run between two offices. it didn't sound very valid IMHO. he rode a bike in one office, then had to rush over to another to office for the blood/pressure test. i've always read about doing the tests back to back.

i don't think he has RLS. he's muscles twitch a lot, but not to where it actually moves the leg. you can just see the twitching on the surface. of course he feels it.

thanks blisss for the book suggestion. i will check it out. i was thinking about lending him my DVD of The Secret.
 


Can someone fill me in on what is "compartment syndrome" I have never heard of that.
 


Here's a link to a good description of "Compartment Syndrome"
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001224.htm
 


Just because a person refers to their previous experience does not mean they are creating their own pain. "I'm positive I will cramp on the ride" does not mean he's making it happen; maybe he is, or maybe he's remembering the intense pain of 100 previous times and drawing a reasonable conclusion. People have a positive attitude all the time and still bad things happen. To say that he has "sealed his fate" is, I think, unjust, and to say that he's "wasting his money with that attitude" may in fact be just incorrect. Yes, it MAY be mental. But it also may be just something that has not yet been correctly diagnosed, and it upsets me so much when I see fellow MTs sounding a lot like those doctors who tell fibro/CFS patients that it's all in their heads.

I know you're concerned for your friend. And I don't know him so of course you have more information to go on than I do, and I don't mean to sound disrespectful or mean. I just disagree so strongly with the idea that thought creates all reality, that the energy you "put out" is exactly what will "come back." My experience is that this just is not always true. (Poverty, genocide, and undiagnosed illness are sometimes just bad luck or the result of politics and long-ago actions by others.)

As far as what to do -- I agree about trying to separate yourself a little. His approach to his pain is his own (I know you know this - I don't want to sound patronizing). Maybe you've experienced this too -- when people start saying they want to shove knives/pieces of glass/needles into their flesh to deal with the pain, it has already taken a huge physical and emotional toll. It effing HURTS, and literally makes people a little crazy. Reason can be impossible to hear (maybe he is not even hearing you about the seriousness of compartment syndrome), and talks about attitude -- it seems like a person in this much pain is really vulnerable, and I would tread lightly bringing up something that can so easily be interpreted as "this is your fault." NOT that you would mean that, but it's possible to read it that way. Even telling him to "be positive" -- as a client, I would find that very invasive, to be told how to view a situation. I know that is my own triggering, not your intention, but it can be very frustrating to perceive that you are being told how to feel when what you asked for, professionally, was physical help and support.

I'm sounding like I always think pessimistically! I know that consistent positive thinking has been a lifesaver for many people. But for some people (like me) it has to be used in moderation. When this client said "Oh, I'll cramp on the ride," I would have been much more likely to just ask, "Oh, will you?" and hear what he had to say.
 


sounds like Myofascial Release would help this guy. Know any John F. Barnes trained therapists by you?


Ami
 


hey--just wanted to sympathize with Jillith's experience while putting in a vote of support for Beccy's perspective. In theory I think people may bring stuff on themselves, but it seems like every time I've wondered if someone IS actually bringing on his own pain, I eventually discover (either while working on that client or someone else) the modality or technique I (probably) needed. Jillith you may be right on that he wasn't properly assessed for compartment syndrome, and a second opinion may be needed. It may take a gentle repeated reminder, that may be more persuasive if you also suggest some alternate resources (especially knowledgeable ones who might also give him a gentle push for a second opinion!) I've noticed that when people are in pain and frustrated, they're grumpy in a very distinct way, a way that looks stubborn or resistant but is in fact tortured. Also, if they've had the pain a long time, some of them have probably wondered if they're bringing it on themselves, making them feel responsible for and guilty about something they probably aren't responsible for. I just put up a post about Airrosti in San Antonio--one kind of myofascial that did wonders for a client's 15yo injury--in one session!
 
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    prostate
  29. Flowers Spa:
    โ”†B l u e X a d o S p aโ”† 416 357 9797 โœฐ ๐Ÿท๐Ÿท๐Ÿถ๐Ÿธ ๐™ฒ๐šŽ๐š—๐š๐š›๐šŽ ๐š‚๐š , ๐š„๐š—๐š’๐š #๐Ÿผ , ๐šƒ๐š‘๐š˜๐š›๐š—๐š‘๐š’๐š•๐š•. Candy | Mimi (New) 19Yrs Vietnamese beautiful face, friendly...Must See...Monica (New) Colombian Thailand, beautiful & shapely...Excellent Service....After 9PM Hanna from Vietnam pretty, medium body, also does lighter treatment with emphasis on service... โ”†B l u e X a d o S p aโ”†416 357 9797 โœฐ ๐Ÿท๐Ÿท๐Ÿถ๐Ÿธ ๐™ฒ๐šŽ๐š—๐š๐š›๐šŽ ๐š‚๐š , ๐š„๐š—๐š’๐š #๐Ÿผ , ๐šƒ๐š‘๐š˜๐š›๐š—๐š‘๐š’๐š•๐š•.
  30. Lulu1980:
    Good morning guys, Phoenix Blossom Spaโ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธTable shower body scrub๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘3 girls every day, new girl Vicky sexy beauty super service, body slide, professional Thai massage technique๐Ÿ‘Œ๐Ÿ‘Œ๐Ÿ‘Œ Cici super deep tissue massage๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ5124Dundas St W Etobicokeโ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366
  31. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am, Young Sexy Curvy Latina Karen, Young Sexy Slim Chinese Emma, Young Slim Thai Janice, Young Sexy CBC Rachel. Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Young Sexy Chinese Abie.
  32. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 5 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธ LUCY, MALIYA, NISHA, AMANDA, ANAYA, MAY, SANA, ANGEL ๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  33. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ(437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅTODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: Anna๐Ÿ˜˜- A stunning sexy girl from Hong Kong
  34. MoonM203:
    MoonMoon spa/416 887 8801/8131Yonge st #203 new 22ys kroea girl (vivi) and Cuban girl (Mimi) in today
  35. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅ Zoe - ๐Ÿ”ฅStunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality who Wa
  36. KSpa:
    THURSDAY at ๐Š ๐’๐๐€: ADA, VICKY, KELLY & CINDY. Unit B6-4227 Sheppard Ave East Scarborough, ON (Just East of Midland Ave) โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฎ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ ADA is 23, 5โ€™4โ€ and 120 Lbs, sweet and sexy with a nice 36C bust and great services. VICKY is 21, Korean, 5โ€™2โ€ & 100 Lbs, with a cute pretty face, good service, & nice 34B pillows to comfort you. KELLY stands 5โ€™3โ€ & weighs 110 Lbs, with nice 34Dโ€™s
  37. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Cici๐Ÿ˜˜A very beautiful and sexy little fangirl, she has a sexy and petite figure, Cici service is first-class, worth having and trying, she belongs to the elite๐Ÿ‘She is very friendly, very cute and exquisite little model!!๐ŸฅฐReal pictures
  38. SunriseRH:
    THURSDAY at ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—ก๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—ฆ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”: MICHELLE & SUMMER. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 27, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿฒ โ˜Ž๏ธ MICHELLE is a young, curvaceous beauty, 5โ€™2โ€ & 130Lbs, 37DDD-31-41, a trim waist, and a nice butt. Come and be pampered. SUMMER is an incredibly sweet Asian babe, 5โ€™3โ€ with a captivating 36D-28-39 figure, weighing 108 pounds. Summer has very good massage & services.
  39. NewOriental:
    THURSDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’š๐—ก๐—˜๐—ช ๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—”๐—Ÿ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY, HELEN & LULU. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿด๐Ÿญ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim & busty Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. HELEN is a young, slim & very sexy Vietnamese lady. She not only looks good, she IS good. LULU is a friendly and very sexy Vietnamese girl
  40. Withme_Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’•๐Ÿ’ฅ at 4386 Sheppard Avenue east โฃ๐Ÿ’‹Thursday โฃ ๐Ÿ’‹Ruby, ๐Ÿ’‹medium height and sexy build with shapely legs and ass. friendly, does a very relaxing treatment and wonderful finish... comfortable treatment ๐Ÿ’‹โฃ Lucy, ๐Ÿ’‹ beautiful, dark hair to shoulder, tall and slim but busty, and does very relaxing treatment with over the top finish. ๐Ÿ’ž Jessica,๐Ÿ’‹ average height, slim build, very pretty, does a very personalized treatment, sure to love... Bonnie โค ๐Ÿ’˜๐Ÿ”‹ 416 297-7488๐Ÿ”‹
  41. Hollywood_Spa:
    โค๐Ÿ’ž a very clean spa at 4578 Yonge Street, unit 100๐Ÿ’ซ๐Ÿ’ฅ๐Ÿ’‹Thursday,๐Ÿ’˜๐Ÿ’ž Cindy, ๐Ÿ’‹abt 5'6", slim build, brown hair past shoulder, very pretty, friendly personality. good English, excellent treatment and service.. ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„Gaga, ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„medium height. Curvy build, good looking, dark hair to shoulder, medium firm treatment, full service menu. ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฅ Sisi, ๐Ÿ‘„ very slim build, medium height, can do firm treatment and over the top service. Cheerful personality and always thrilled to see you. โฃ๐Ÿ’‹ ๐Ÿ“ฑ 416 222-5554๐Ÿ“ฑ
  42. ASPA:
    ๐—ง๐—›๐—จ๐—ฅ๐—ฆ๐——๐—”๐—ฌ ๐—”๐—ง ๐€ ๐’๐๐€: Fox, Coco & ๐—ฏ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜ ๐—บ๐—ฎ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฎ๐—ด๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ฎ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—น[/color] ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ FOX is 26 years old with 34Cโ€™s, stands 164Cm tall and weighs 54Kg. Fox is very friendly and can provide a great girlfriend experience.
  43. lemon_tree:
    ๐Ÿ’›๐Ÿ’ฅ a discreet entrance at 4155 Sheppard Avenue east, 201โฃ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’˜Thursday, โฃ๐Ÿ’‹ Cici...๐Ÿ’‹ small build, friendly and pretty,nice touch, with a lot of energy, service oriented, aka Coco . Lisa, ๐Ÿ’‹ ๐Ÿ“ž647 348-2899๐Ÿ“ž
  44. Dreaminn:
    THURSDAY at๐Ÿ’ญ๐——๐—ฅ๐—˜๐—”๐—  ๐—œ๐—ก๐—ก ๐—ช๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’ญ: ELSA, TINA & VIVI. 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie), Richmond Hill, ON โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ โ˜Ž๏ธ ELSA is slim, petite & very pretty student, early 20โ€™s about 5โ€™2โ€ and 105 Lbs. Elsa has an innocent look about her, but she can drive you wild with pleasure, and provides a great massage. TINA is a Vietnamese girl with long black hair, slim with nice curves.
  45. SugarLoveSpa:
    CHERRY is a young, slim, friendly and absolutely gorgeous Vietnamese beauty, 49 Kgs with Bounteous D Cups. Real pics, unreal services! BBBJ, shower together, full menu. SARA is a beautiful Thai lady with C Cups, 160 Cms and 50 Kgs, who has a full set of services to delight you. TIFFANY is an amazing slim petite doll with natural 34C melons, slim waist, & a cute little booty. Tiffany has incredible bbbj skills, tastes sweet
  46. HolidaySpa:
    Thursday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธAngie, Cindy & Jenny. Cindy is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best! Molly (First Day) is a new, very sexy lady with a pretty face, C Cups, a slim waist, slightly curvy hips & great services.
  47. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center: Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Michelle ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs coco ,young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Tina ,Student big boobs buttocks Vicky, Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ,๐Ÿ address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2โ˜Ž๏ธ4376655510 ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„
  48. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: New Young girl pretty face big boobs nice figure deep massage Anika , New Young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Tiffany,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Anjoo ,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 โ˜Ž๏ธ4379857899 ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…
  49. bnwellness_wilson:
    Blue Nile Wellness Center, we have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young cute Japanese Lily 36DDD and young fun Ivy 30โ€™s with big buttocks , pretty GFE Ella and young sweet Tina with curves body open mind are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in aways welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  50. ForeverWarden:
    Thursday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Sofia & Tracy. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Sophia is a sweet & pretty Chinese lady with natural B Cups and an awe-inspiring smooth rounded ass.
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