Sad

[DETROITMAN]

I often feel very sad when I read the posts in this forum. Not just because of the pain and suffering that people are enduring but because there is a pattern which is frustratingly obvious, but which seems completely missed by the NHS.

The pattern seems to be this; the patient gets back pain, goes to GP, gets pain killers, this continues until patient recovers or gets bowel/bladder problems or pain that the drugs can no longer hide. At this stage the patient gets referred, has an MRI goes through the same cycle again or gets awful news about the mess their back is in and then gets offered an operation.... Now I know this is simplistic but its the basis of many posts here.

What seems to be missing is the recognition that generally, ignoring accidents, back problems and thus back pain seem to stem from lifestyle issues such as excessive times spent holding poor posture when standing or sitting, bad lifting practice and insufficient functional strength of the core muscles to support and protect the spine during daily activities. The pain and inflammation are simply the bodies way of telling the patient they are doing something wrong, or something is wrong and they need to do something about it.

What I find frustrating is that taking pain killers is basically a method of allowing us to ignore the messages the body is sending, allowing the patient to continue the situation that is causing damage to their body.

In my opinion part of the problem is this countries reliance on clinical trials to believe that something will help them. Drug companies spend huge sums of money to prove in clinical trials that their pain killer is better, safer etc than another and they make huge sums of money selling huge quantities of them. They still have side effects; but these are documented so acceptable. So these are 'prescribed' rather than suggesting potentially more appropriate solutions. The anecdotal evidence and small scale clinical trials for devices such as inversion tables, flexi-bak etc are ignored, along with the potential benefits from seeing a chiropractor, osteopath, massage therapist or practising Alexandria technique, Bowen therapy etc. There are a few doctors out there doing their own research on such things but unfortunately until they produce enough statistics to satisfy the sceptical medical community I fear the situation will continue.

Pete

 

[FrEe BiRd]

Sadly we live in a world where pill popping is the norm, and doctors are the main culprits. Clearly highlighting how the medical system does very little to heal, but does a lot to mask the true issues.



Sadly, drug companies have a monopoly on health and anything deemed complementary they will fight against. Let's face it they stand to lose millions, and in time they will lose millions as people wake up and take responsibility for their own health, stop believing everything they are told by their GP's and become empowered to manage their own health.

That time will come, and I hear your frustrations.

 

[Brandie C]

Peter you mention inversion tables, I would love one of these but I have been told that I am to much at risk, that my protruding discs might get pinched and I would be in even more of a state?

I so agree with your post though, so many visits I have been sent away with stronger and stronger meds

 

[calamari144]

I feel so sad too, how can it be a nations mindset that taking pain killers to block pain is the right thing to do?
How can we change from stiff upperlip, head down, get on with it mentality?
When will we realize prevention is better than cure?
Modern lifesyles, inactivity, computor jobs all mean that things will get worse before they get better.
Regards steve

 

[Bill Q]

Hi Steve,

I was very active, I ran my own stables, rode horses everyday and mucked them out. My back problems were due to injuries through accidents, not hard work or using the pc, or not exercising. So although I agree with your point that modern indoor lifestyles will increase back problems, there are many of us here that used to be very active and fit!

 

[yagiman900]

Hi Cascara

If in doubt I would always advise people to check with their medical professional before using an inversion table or changing their physical activities. Although the reality with inversion is that due to the lack of clinic trials etc many medical professionals have never heard of it or remain sceptical and thus they are unlikely to suggest trying it.

It is possible that excessive lordotic curvature can occur when people with shoulder problems raise their arms above their head. Could this have been the reason why you were told there was a risk of your protruding disc being pinched? If that is the case you could try a forward inversion machine such as the DEX II or adjust the table to that you can control it by bending your elbows so your hands touch the opposite shoulder. Personally I have never heard of anyone who has made their back worse by using a table and I have spoken to many people who try it as a ‘last resort’. While in an inverted position of around 60 degrees the gravity based traction increases the distance between the vertebrae, that in turn reduces the pressure on the nerves and discs in the spine that has been shown can result in a reduction of back pain in as little as 10 sec. The vast majority of people seem to benefit from even mild angles of inversion. There is even a study underway at Newcastle Hospital on the benefits of using an inversion table for those with sciatica. The pilot was very promising so hopefully the full study will highlight the benefits to more people.

When I first used mine I pre-set the angle of inversion to 20 degrees so that I was almost horizontal but with my feet just slightly higher than my head and it felt wonderful. The tension in my lower back just melted away. I would spend several minutes like that, just breathing deeply and 'sighing' to really relax. I set my table so that it moves slowly and after about a week changed the pre-set to 40 degrees and repeated the process. After a month or two I could easily go to 60 degrees which I find enough to really make a lasting difference.

Like with anything there are contraindications for inversion for example for people with certain medical conditions so it is always worth checking them before trying it for yourself.

 

[GodVeruaie]

I often feel very sad when I read the posts in this forum. Not just because of the pain and suffering that people are enduring but because there is a pattern which is frustratingly obvious, but which seems completely missed by the NHS.


With regards to the reasons for back pains, I agree with Cassie!
Most chronicly acute and disabled back pain sufferers have had accident based injuries in the past which then later develop.

I realise though, that a lot of people have new, low level and periodic back pains caused by the very things you state in you 1st post.
However, there is usually a root cause to these pains and unless a sufferer finds the site of these root causes and correctly treats them, they are destined to deteriorate in the long term because the true reason for the pain is not being addressed. GP's and Consultants must also accept their fair share of the blame for this.

The point you and others have made about drugs masking pain is totally valid, and even though making you pain ease and improving your day to day functions does justfiy the taking of these drugs, the long term effects will cause secondary and sometime catastrophic illnesses. In the long term these actions are not advisable or desirable and the Physicians are to blame for this reliance.

I agree, the drug companies do have far to much control and power over what treatments are available to us on the NHS and as we ultimately pay for these companies profits, I am disgusted and shocked at the level to which this has proved to be true in my case.

Lets make some noise people!!

All the best


SPINELF

 

[MOON WILLOW]

Couldnt agree more

(although inversion tables arent the answer in my opinion)

 

[staalwart]

Spinelf, How do we make noise then?[/quote]


Just keep doing what your doing Cassie, spreading the word!

 

[JZD]

Hi Spine elf What evidence do you have that most spine/disc problems are caused by accident/trauma ?
The medical evidence I have studied shows most eg disc ruptures happen doing the most ordinary of things eg quickly bending to p[ick up paper from floor.
Regards steve

 

[G Love]

Hiya Steve.

I am afraid that after nearly 2 years of research in to my condition, I cannot offer you any definative, unbiased, independant, or non-special interest evidence to 'prove' my beliefs, neither have I found any evidence to cause me to conclusively support a veiw that 'minor' or 'light incidents' cause the majority of long term, multi-level and chronic degenerative changes in people with severe and properly diagnosed spinal conditions.

This does not mean however that I dismiss your point or seek to belittle the suffering of those who have been injured in the way you describe, I would even accept that something as insignificant as 'sneezing' has caused serious damage to sufferers muscles and discs. With this in mind I would be very grateful to you if you could point me in the right direction to the medical evidence you read regarding the minor incidents information you mentioned in your recent post, I am still looking for a better understanding of my own condition and never close my mind to any information stream from any source on the subject of the best spinal conditions and conservative or surgical treatments

Also, with regards to 'your' muscle treatments, I would be very grateful to you if you would let me know of any associated clinics in the South Wales area offering the same treatments. I use an execelent local Osteopath at least once a month, but I do not always need his bone manipulation skills, sometimes I just need a good deep muscle massage, particularly in the sub occipital muscles. Thank you!

The problem I have with accepting evedence in most of the research I have found in journals and, web sites, is that they very often contridict each other and offer a confusing array of figures.
What I also find very disconcerting is the research and funding relationship between some Spine Specialist, drug companies and surgical equiptment manufacturers.
Very often, the evidence being offered is heavily biased (sometimes blatently so) in favour of a type of branded procedure or a particular type of mechanical fitting relating to that relationship,
it seems that the more urgent and experimental
the procedure is, the more keen they are to operate.

Whether it is as a conservative alternative to surgery or as a post operation support therapy, their reluctance to refer sufferers to effective 'non invasive therapies' such as your massage technique, osteopathy, alexander technique etc: in favour of standard NHS physiotherapy, I believe demonstrates the extent of 'protectionism' I believe pervades the medical establishment in spinal services.

My main source of information regarding my beliefs about the 'major causes' of spinal problems also comes from my own experiences & research and those of my trusted friends and family gathered over the last 20 years. Our experiences (in a heavily industrial area) has in the past and still does today 'fly in the face' of established medical 'dogma' regarding spinal services in Britain.
The results of these experiences have shown me that the medical evidence that I have researched,
is at best, questionable! and the conclusions drawn from them misleading.
Here are 2 examples of why I beleive this!

In May 2004, I was given an MRI scan. I was told that this scan showed that my sciatic pain was caused by a 'congenital narrowing' of my spinal canal, caused by a bulging disc impingement of my spinal column at the L 3/4 level.
In May 2005 I had a second (private) MRI scan, This scan showed that the L 3/4 disc was not bulging and not impinging anything! If it was 'previously bulging' then it had gone back in place of its own valition!
But, My sciatica pain continued to get worse!
The second MRI showed an osteophyte impingement of my nerve root at the L4/5 right sided foraminal opening, as I am sure you know,
this is the level that the main sciatic nerve leaves the spinal column and therefore this is a far more likely location of sciatic pain.
As it proved post op 2009.
I was listed in reports as having a 'minor congenital condition' and would have shown up as such on the medical report you read. In fact I had damaged my back in 1988 when I tried to lift a very heavy box of parts, twisted without due care and caused severe pains in my right side lumber spine, groin and testicles in the area that I now know as being the L 4/5 - S1 levels.
Not 'light lifting' at all, not congenital either!
Yet I am still listed in my GP's clinic as having a congenital problem.

My uncle, a draughts man for over 40 years, developed periodic left sided lumber spine pain 24 year ago after a football injury when he slamed into a goal post with his back/hip, this condition went undiagnosed and untreated.
4 years ago he suddenly developed severe neck & head pains and spasms in the neck. He had never suffered from them before and he found them frightening. (you and I would recognise these as possibly being protective spasms in response to lumber spine imbalance issues)
He was taken in to hospital within days and underwent a spinal decompression of his neck.
The procedure went well, but he became worse.
12 month later he was given a second deccompression at the next level down, He became worse still!! In 2007 her underwent a anterior approach decompression of the same area. He has experienced no change or improvement post op.
He was listed has having disc bulges caused by his sedentary work sitting at the draughting table and suffering phsycological refuge.
As he had not improved, he was sent to a Neurological Specialist who placed electrodes in his back and fired eletronic impulses used to trace any breaks in the spines neurological pathways. He found no problems 'at all' in his neck, but he found significant issues with his lumber region. The long standing trauma location.
He is still as of this moment, incorrectly listed as having caused this problem by his sedentry
work.

I realise this is only 2 cases in one family, but there are other similar cases amongst my friends and family and statisically speaking, I am convinced that if this is researched across the country as a hole, a pattern will emerge which will prove my beliefs to be correct.

Until medics start to take into account the full history of individuals trauma and work & life styles they will continue to 'misdiagnose' back pain sufferers, fail to act more quickly, fail to allow non invasive therapies to work within the NHS and as a result, consign ever more sufferers to a downward spiral of a hellish existence.

I do understand that my beliefs will not be what you were looking for and are not of a clinical trial standard, but my experience of having researched my own illness after being repeatedly written off by the NHS, correctly diagnosing my own condition, sourcing my own safe & effective surgical procedure and being able to accurately assess my post operative condition, has shown me that 'my efforts' are far superior and more solidly based in the realms of reality than any of the
'so called' health proffesionals that are holding back 'cutting edge' & 'time proven' conservative therapies & surgical procedures from the us, the tax payers and funders of the NHS.

I will stop now Steve, before I start ranting like a madman. Let me know what you think!

Kind regards

SPINELF

 

[catnipnbones]

I have tried unsucessfully to find the medicle research on pubmed that led to my mentioning those as statistics and as you have so rightly pointed out how reliable and unbiassed is it ???.

Thankyou for your in depth explaination of your position and the suffering of fellow familly members. No one should be appologising for v long posts on these threads as this information offers a vital voice in the dark to a long suffering community and allows that individual an outpouring they obviousley desparately need.

It also means likeminded practitioners can come and read this information and then be better able to empathise/listen to our clients when they walk through the door.

I think:-
culturally we predispose ourselves to pain with our grin and bare it attitude and we are more prepared to pay to get our car fixed than pay for private treatment,
We are only aware of GPs advice pills physio as primary care (some physio's are very very good at what they do) most are not hands on enough.
The modern office shoe horns an individual into an totally false anti human £300 seated work station for hours and hours at a time ( this is where most muscle problems build up then predispose you to injury)
Much more needs to be done by universitys and private industry to research the needs of human anatomy into design of work stations.
Occupational predisposition to injury leads to blaming sport or other activity because that is when failure occures, and again with trauma, eg whiplash, injuries can be so much worse because the muscle tissues of the neck are already in crissis = forces of impact are tranfered more directly into bone/ligament.

Osteopathy and sports and remedial massage may be good areas to start to look for help.Ask the therapist how long they have been in practice?, have they experience of treating the specific problem you have? do they have an established referral system? When you first call dont be afraid to take your time by going into detail if the therapist is pressed for time ask them to ring you back later (this will tell you how genuinly interested in you they are) A multidiciplinary clinic may be a good way to go.

The assiociations listed below may be able to find a therapist local to you or why not ask your own osteopath/org for recommended massage therapist?

/www.osteopathy.org.uk/information/finding-an-osteopath/www.uksportstherapy.org.uk/
/www.nammt.co.uk
www.theisrm.com/
www.lcsp.uk.com/
www.scotmass.co.uk/smto.html

All the above are listed via the www.gcmt.org.uk/professional_associations.asp
except the general osteopathic councill.

Hope this helps steve
PS these are my opinions

 

[?Fashion Fairy?]

Yep they always quote that stuff, I was fit, very fit, rode horses all my life and every day so my core stability was second to none! Exercise? well I had 2 kids, 3 dogs and nine horses to care for go... figure, found plenty of time to sit around I did - not lol. Maybe it was the lack of care and attention I paid to my small injuries, not enough rest, but it was certainly not because of any lack of fitness, exercise, being overweight or anything else they say.

Maybe that is why mine are so bad though?

 

[Tom Morello]

This why I beleive that these small bumps and knocks, having gone undetecteted and untreated for many years, lay hard working and healthy people low and consign them a life of living hell! Just like us, hey Cassie?

Best wishes always

SPINELF