problem below L4/L5

[faerstil]

hi, i had an operation 1 year ago on a large prolapse at L4/L5 i did not recover well from the op with my left leg even more numb and weak than before the operation when i started to sit again after the op i had a bad pain at the base of my spine at first i thought it was from the op but it got worse and now i have problems that feel like nerve pain going down my right leg iam already taking pregablin but it does not seem to be working, anyway it took 10 months for me to see the surgeon after my op and he was surprised to see how much worse i was he arranged an mri scan then i get a phone call from him saying i need another op below L4/L5, has anyone had this op and is it going to be worse than the L4/L5 as i very often wish i had not had it done before i was more active and now because my leg and back pain i've put on over 1 stone which i cannot shift, any advise would be much appreciated.

 

[cdluszji]

The level you are referring to BMW, is the L5/S1, and is the last disc level at the base of the spinal column. Damage 'or' desease at the L 4/5 level is 'often' accompanied by similar problems at the L5/S1 level, this
is because those 2 levels are supporting the whole weight of the torso, arms, neck and head.

For some reason, god knows why, Spinal Surgeons are renouned for mis-reading MRI scans of this level's nerve impingements and often play down it's sigificance. Believe me, they are crucial levels, and problems there can cause 'major spinal instability' as far up as the neck & head.

The most likeliest cause of your residual post operative pains (in my mind) is that the majority of your pre-operative pains were actually caused by the L5/S1 and not the L 4/5 as previously thought. That would explain the persistance of the symptoms.

If I am right, the LS/S1 level should send any leg pains & spasms present, down the BACK of your leg/s right down to your feet.
If it's the L 4/5 level, you should feel those pains & spasms more in the
FRONT of the leg/s. If you still have nerve impingements at both levels, you will feel pain all over your leg/s, as well as your HIPS, BUTT CHECKS, GROIN and (if appicable) TESTICLES.

However, Standard open back spine surgery and less invasive open back procedures (sometimes described as microdiscectomy) are well known for causing very poor clinical outcomes for patients, this is due to their destructive nature and methods.

Make sure you get all the 'detailed information' you want 'and need' from your Surgeon before commiting to a 2nd procedure, he/she won't want to give this much detail, but be persistant, it's your body, it's your life.

All the very best BMW, I hope this helped a little.


SPINELF

 

[partly cloudy]

Hi Delidot here,

I had two disctectomies and my second op the surgeon, cut my left sciatic nerve and has left me with constant sciatica for the rest of my life.
I too have put on actually 4 stone, and people often say, you must over eat or u must secretly eat a poor diet. This is simply not the case, my husband could not believe that on the weight watchers diet, i still could only loose 7lb but due to my medication, i and lack of mobility i just could not loose any more weight.
I have recently been in hospital after my second op was 8 years ago, with another prolapsed disc, but on my right side and above L4L5, and my surgeon performed a double nerve root injection, double facet joint injections and a caudal epidural. After 2 and a half weeks the sciatic pain has restarted in my buttocks and down my right leg, which is the new pain. the chronic sciatica which i have had now for over 8 years has just started again in my left leg but no in my buttocks. If i had a choice i wouldnt operate again, but, if you look on google and put in new pioneering spinal back surgery, it brings up sites the consutlants use, and i have found that there are alot of options you can ask from your surgeon. For example. My surgeon has told me that due to the two previous ops removing discs, the new prolapse is one of potentially many more, as the areas have started to wear away, then it collapses and dics above and below start to bulge and then the same process happens all over again.
If you want me to email stuff i have found then send me your email address and i will send you the links, they may or may not help you, but i certainly will be looking for as much info as i can before anyone else touches my back, with the understanding, that i want something done that will prevent my other discs from collapsing in the future.... what do you think?
Deli Dot

 

[Serena G]

Hi I am a retired nurse who, as a result of all the lifting in the days before hoists, has had 4 major spinal ops spanning across many years. The first prolapsed disc I had was in 1979 (L5/S1), the second in 1999 (L4/L5) and the third in 2000 (L2-L5). The first 2 ops were discectomies and laminectomies the third was a spinal fusion. I did really well after the first op but just went backwards after 2 & yet after 3 I made good progress until a slip on food in staff dining room. I had a brill orthopaedic consultant who explained everything and didn't give false hope & when we realised the nerve pain as such didn't present as an operative target he referred me to a Neurologist. 2 years ago I had a spinal cord stimulator implanted which is a bit like an internal tens machine. This hasn't given me a great deal of relief and some days I feel just like a ball of pain. On others, I appreciate the fact that I am here and can do some of the things that bring me pleasure and for that I am grateful. Even having to swallow 35 tablets a day I endure because these enable me to do things for myself. My advice is to ask as many questions as you can think of from your consultant, ask about second opinions, ask about medication options if what you are taking isn't helping and above all try to stay positive. I hope that you can get some solution to your pain as I truly appreciate how pain can really pull you down. Try to enjoy the good days and you will find something to be thankful for. Namaste, Maria

 

[Aranterion]

Hi

I have also put on weight since my first discectomy 8 years ago, and have added another stone in the last 8 months due to inactivity. One person suggested that I have back problems because of my weight, when in fact I have weight problems because of my back...... The extra weight cannot be helping my back problems and I rarely eat chocolate and junk food so it seems very unfair .

My first op was at L5/S1 and while I was never completely pain free afterwards and was limited in my activities it allowed me to live a relatively 'normal' life. The op should not be any worse than the one you have already had but do look at all of your options.

I hope that all goes well for you.

Maz

 

[jimjam v]

well i saw the surgeon today after he told me by phone that i needed an op at L1 was just getting my head around a second op when he said it would not take away the pain in my back or the very low spine pain and could leave me worse off with more pain and weakness in my left leg , i was speachless i was not expecting to have no alternative but to live with this constant pain, at 43 i do not want to have this much pain for the rest of my life, i feel terrible at this prospect.

 

[Rargyroolla]

Hi

I just wonder whether you have tried any alternatives?

There are many therapies mentioned in these forums that do not involve surgery but are very effective. Chiropractors, Osteopaths, Massage therapists, Physiotherapists etc can often be very successful at treating back problems and are fairly available in the private sector. Other therapists such as Bowen Technique etc are less available in some areas but can be very helpful. There are specialist centres around the country that offer a mixture of these therapies/therapists in order to talour the most suitable treatment for your particular problem.

Many people also find practising some form of regular spinal decompression at home using either an inversion table or a Nubax Trio is very helpful.

Relying on your surgeon for alternatives is not a great idea in my opinion as they are only experts in one field ie operating on backs, and know very little about the alternatives available.

Hope you find some relief soon.

Pete

 

[destinbury]

IMHO the main reason why many therapies get limited success for these 'spinal issues' and 'trapped nerves', conventional or otherwise, is that they don't regard these as whole body problems.

There is a reciprocal relationship between any piece of structure and any other piece of structure, if these relationships aren't sorted out then mechanical strain will persist, no matter how brilliant the treatment of the local problem.

But...
mechanics affect, and are affected by, metabolism;

and metabolism affects, and is affected by, toxicity;

and all of these affect, and are affected by, mental and emotional state.

So damage to a lumbar disc is less about the disc failing and more about force being focussed upon it from elsewhere, due to the twists and turns the body makes dealing with ALL its concerns - metabolic, toxic, mental, physical etc etc.

Nerve pain is disease of the nerve, the nerve becomes inflammed for all kinds of reasons, compression or irritation at the spine is just one potential element of many. Treating this as a specialist problem doesn't make sense to me, special skills may at times be needed, that's not the same thing.

Funnily enough we could say much the same about a problem with kidney, or a colon, or a lung. So you need a holist - not somebody who does wierd things, or lots of things, but somebody who understands the complete jigsaw.

Just my tuppence worth.