Is this a rip off or not?

[Marcella]

Hi

Just wondering what your thoughts are out there on this scenario..

if you are massaging clients in a clinic and they are advertising by the hour or half hour or whatever (i..e 60 mins massage £50) - would you expect to have the client do the consultation, undress, dress, sip water etc all within those 30/60 minutes. Not to mention changing the towels, freshening up the room and god forbid even have a sip of water yourself and grab 5 minutes rest before going into the next hour long massage.

A place I have recently stopped working in expected me to do a 3.5 hour stint of deep tissue massages without any time in between to do a proper consultation and allow enough time for the client to do what is necessary. They claim that they are charging the client for an hour of the therapists time and so therefore everything must be done within that specified time even if it means that the client therefore only gets a 45 - 50 minute massage. Not to mention that they didn't think it appropriate or necessary for me to want a 10 - 15 break in between, despite the fact that I wouldn't actually be getting that break as I would changing the towels and freshening up the room etc.

On top of this the main lady of the place mentioned that upon a client having an epileptic fit, she deemed him healthy enough at the end of the fit and didn't call an ambulance because she 'didn't need an ambulance turning up outside her clinic', despite another therapist insisting that she do so. That therapist didn't last the first day.

And to put the icing on the cake I was told that I was to do the consultation very quickly in order to fit the client's treatment into the time slot allotted.

Now I have been doing massage for over 12 years, albeit not always in a clinic and mostly from home or in a mobile capacity and so I have always had the luxury of time to make my clients feel pampered but I cannot help but feel that this practice is really exploiting the client by not making clear exactly what they are paying for in terms of actual hand's on treatment time and instead are almost putting the clients on a virtual treadmill. Not to mention the health and safety implications by not calling an ambulance after a client has failed to even mention that they are an epileptic in the first place and then proceeded to have a fit and end up on the floor. Regardless of what it 'looked like' I would rather know that I was covered by my insurance or indeed, actually know that the client was alright!

Hmmmm.. please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

 

[s.finley23]

Re the epileptic fit: most people know if they are ok after one or not, they don't want an ambuklance turning up, they usually just want to get home ASAP and go to bed, not a more stressful situation having ambulance officers and everyone fussing over them. How much of it was the client quietly saying 'I am ok' and the owner insisting to everyone it was ok?

As for treatment time, spas are usually the worse offenders when it comes to an appointment - I call it a spa hour, spa hour is a one hour booking which does not mean a one hour treatment, it means less than a one hour treatment and 45-50min are the usual actual treatment time for a spa hour.
you will very very occassionally see some spas list things as 50min treatments with a 60min price, truth in advertising, but you don't often see it.
You were working at a place that worked on spa hours, that's all there is to it. You didn't like it you don't work there anymore. If they have any repeat business it means clients were happy with their pricing and treatment, you can't get all outraged for the happy clients.

 

[Joe P]

With therapy you can charge for a treatment irrespective of the time it takes or you can charge for your time and expertise, we charge an extra £5.00 for the consultation to allow the extra time that is required to complete it.

Saying that it is not good for therapists to work patients back to back for prolonged times with the more physically demanding therapies as they can lead to RSI, but that is something else to consider outside of how you charge for you treatments

 

[JDL]

I think it's a shame that so many places operate in this way - it has to be better for both client and therapist if everything is transparent in terms of outlining exactly what is included in the treatment/treatment time. As Paul said, I prefer to add a small additional charge to a client's first treatment with me in order to cover the extra time required to complete a consultation. I would also make sure that everything in the room (towels etc) was ready for the client before they arrived, but this is not always possible when you are working for someone else!

I don't think there is much you can do other than refuse to work for this place again! Maybe just put it down to experience and next time you are offered work for a clinic check in advance exactly what will be expected of you etc?

As for the epileptic client - am I right in thinking you were expected to massage him/her immediately after their fit and that they were a new client? If so then surely a doctor's approval would be required prior to treatment?

Sorry you've had such a bad experience.

 

[an old Priestess]

My point here Cola was irrespective of whether or not the client wanted or didn't want the ambulance, it was the fact that the owner said she didn't want an ambulance turning up outside her clinic. Therefore not putting her client's health first.

Thank you for your comments - I just think that when working with clients the whole ethos behind a 'holistic/therapeutic' therapy is that you are treating them as a whole, taking into consideration that they are coming for a lovely experience, not rushing them through it. I normally charge extra for the first treatment in order to take the consultation too. However, the clinic weren't interested in charging different prices as they wanted to keep it 'simple'.



Getting outraged is somewhat an exaggeration - and it's worthwhile pointing out that for most of these clients it was their first treatment at this clinic and maybe the reason they were happy with the pricing and the treatment was because I was running late in order to give them their full hour. In fact, one of the clients who had been there before and who normally only booked for 1/2 hour actually wanted to book for an hour - so perhaps it would be more prudent for the clinic to work with their clients interests in mind.


So Ner!

Anyhoo. thanks once again for the comments.. like you say SerendipitySue and Paul - it's better to charge a small amount for the first consultation or at least outline exactly what they are getting. Perhaps I am just too soft - I like to try and give them a really nice time and so don't like to rush my treatments.

 

[TheAnswerMan]

You weren't working in a business where your values matched the businesses value - that is not a rip off, it's a difference of opinion.

Since we're getting into what is a rip off or not, compared to how I price treatments, charging clients a consultaion fee is a rip off, I keep it simple, I don't charge for a consultation, I charge them for a 1 hr treatment, they get a 1hr treatment plus consultaion etc. I allow 30min between appointments, for new clients or existing ones when their conditions charge, the consultation comes out of that 30min without charging them extra for consultation, most of the time it gives me time to change room, eat, return phone calls etc.

BUT I don't consider charging for consultations a rip off, I consider it a different way to doing business to how I do. I don't do it like that, doesn't mean it is wrong. Somewhere that wants people in the door at 1pm and out on the footpath at 2pm does business a different way again, I wouldn't work somewhere like that, but other people do.

So, relative to my pricing, do you feel that you are exploiting your clients by charging them extra for consultations? You're adding an extra service charge that is included in the base rate if they came to see me. I'm sure you'd defend it with 'I make it clear, people know what they are paying for', similar justification used for people paying for a 1hr appointment, not a 1hr treatment, 'people are paying for 1hr of time'. I'm not really interested in the defence, it's just a different way of running a business.

 

[lovelyartist]

There will always be different thoughts on pricing structures, on a purely business point of view, we are in the service industry the same as plumbers, motor mechanics, etc. I have yet to come across a plumber etc. who will do one and a half hours work and only charge us for one hours work.

 

[Thats Personal]

What I find really disappointing on these forums is that when asking for advice people can be quick to belittle. Cola, I was simply asking for advice on something that upset me and wanted to know the general consensus, whilst I take on board your opinions - your rather brusque tone is somewhat disconcerting and certainly unnecessary. I am not asking you to put pretty flowers around your answers, just take the slightly accusatory tone down a tad.

Paul - you have a point there, it's very rare that my consultations last a short time and they usually go on for quite a while, so if the extra £'s that I charge covers a good 15 minutes to half hour then I am presuming that isn't a rip off!

I fully appreciate that we all work differently - I was just thinking that the whole way they were rushing through the treatments was out of line. Nuff said. Right I have bored myself and shall return to simply thinking these sorts of things through in my head!

 

[cecojdat]

Hi Cola,

Certainly started a debate in our household this morning!!!

I know where Paul is coming from, but I think that charging for a consultation, albeit ours is only £5, reflects the fact that we do legally have to do one for our insurance. It reflects the time taken to design and print the form and gives it a value for the client. A consultation fee also encourages the person to concentrate more and remember more info which could help us give the best treatment. Often we do a joint one, as we offer combination treatments, so it isn't really covering our hourly rate at all.

What do you charge, if after you have done a consultation, you decide that you are not able to treat the person for whatever reason?

 

[Wajahat A]

Hi raining feet,

The problems with writing on forums is that something written in one way can be read in another way that was not intended-if that makes sense.

Unfortunately for some people running clinics/spas time is money so the the more treatments can be done the more money they earn. Although it is the therapist working off their socks and trying to do the best for each client this is not taken into consideration.

Sorry to hear about your current place of work. Does the client get to fill in the form before they get into the room. Unfortunately you don't have the luxury of time to give a lengthy consultaion so your main aim will be to know anything that is important eg if they have pain, recent ops. I can understand that you want to give the client their full time this but of course will be impossible to do as you've already mentioned. The only thing you can do is to cut the treatment short by about 5 mins or else you are going to run yourself ragged and burn out.

It can be hard working for someone else so you may have to decide if it is worth if for you.

I worked a busy London spa where treatments were 25 or 55 min long with 5 mins to get ready for the next client. In my first few days I tried to give each client their full time but then it meant I was running late all day and then this would lead to clients complaining. I lenjoy doing massage but after 2 years there I was burning out. It was the motivation I need to leave and start working for myself.

Some places will say that the treatment time includes the consultation time.

I don't charge extra for the consultation although others might and then future treatments cost slighty less. Everyone has to do what works for them.

 

[TheMacGamer]

I Essence99.. yep..I think that it definitely depends on a) where you work and b) if the people running the joint are or ever have been massage therapists themselves. I have worked in places before where they made sure you had breaks in between if only just to make sure that you had enough time for a pee and to change the towels, relight candles etc!!!

I have embarked on working for myself and am enjoying every second of it. I have also rented rooms in the past and that has worked well for me too.



Hmmmmm...

 

[sjepwuryighiwfeub]

Good detate. Personally I could never work on the "conveyor belt" system and wouldn't like to be a client in a "conveyor belt" system. Just personal choice. I think being your own boss and doing things your way leads to more job satisfaction and customer satisfaction. Maybe not more money...... but hey you can't have it all now can you ;-). As a mobile therapist a one hour massage can take me up to 3 hours in total the first time. Distance travelled to and from client, setting up time, consultation process and treatment.

As far as the no rest breaks go - well that's just postively inhumane and workhouse-like. Everyone is entitled to consideraton, respect and rests. Would a factory worker be expected to stand at an assembly line for that long without a break?

I do agree that some forum members can come across as pedantic but try and give them the benefit of the doubt. The typed word is not an easy medium to convey nuance and tone in and I think most people mean well.

 

[Mommy of 1]

Thanks that was what I was trying to say but you put it a lot more eloquently than I could have.

 

[Alexa.Ann]

Yogjoga.. that was beautifully said!! As Essence99 said, tres eloquent!!

I am re-renting a space with some therapists not far from my home and we went out for a drink last night which they often organise to just meet up and spend time together, swap ideas etc etc.. and it was soooooooooooooo nice. Just lovely down to earth people who are likeminded. They were horrified about the events where I worked and it just reminded me that there are lovely places to work and I am really looking forward to working back with them again.

Needless to say I am a bit hungover... and sick..

 

[mrs. holden caulfield.]

I totally agree, there is no need for immature belittling statements like So Ner! it really brings the tone of a forum down when people resort to belittling other people like that, and then when they respond to the So Ner! it's brusque, somewhat disconcerting and certainly unnecessary? Something about pot kettle comes to mind......

 

[elo2joe]

I practice quite a range of different modalities, so far I've not encountered anyone I've not been able to treat after the consultation.
A few people have had to leave when they have refused to fill out the consultation and I've not charged them anything.

I've had people book in for one treatment and we've had to change it for something else after the consultation (diabetes and stone therapy are the most problematic - they can either have a shorter treatment or something different, but they can't have the standard 1st stone therapy treatment)

I price everything, except stone therapy, at the same hourly rate, (it's a bit extra for a full stone therapy treatment) My hourly rate is very expensive for some treatments, a bit expensive for massage, and average to cheap for a couple of other techniques I do. I'm quite comfortable charging more than the average rate for a massage. I don't feel like I need to charge more again to cover the consultation. If I charged less I might be motivated to charge for extras like a consultation.

 

[pornhunter.biz]

Oh please Cola. Saying so ner is hardly offensive, if anything it was trying to point out in a humerous way that I was feeling under attack by yourself. And, I might add, purely in response to your tone in the previous email.

We are obviously going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[CL3VZ323]

Hi Raining Feet

It certainly must be disappointing for you that the place you were working at operates in this manner. It doesnt sound like the type of place I would want to work for or receive a treatment from.

Interestingly, the client I had yesterday said she had gone to a well known Spa in London the previous weekend and although her treatment was ok she feels that she has been thoroughly spoilt by me. Needless to say this put a smile on my face Its nice to know I am providing a service my clients want, and come back for.

I always say allow an hour treatment. I am charging an hourly rate for my time and dont specify exactly how long the treatment is because everyone is individual and some people require more work on specific areas. Quite often I take longer than an hour. I am fortunate not to have time constraits. I have considered working for a clinic but your post has certainly made me think I am better off continuing as I am!

 

[CindyLu]

Not necessarily PowerLily - I think that (as I will now do) the thing is to find out how they work as a clinic and also stipulate how you work from the off. That way there aren't any surprises. I think I just had a bad experience - aside from the concerns I listed initially in the thread, the boss was also telling me that I had some sinister spirit after me and demanded that I found out who he was because he was now haunting the clinic and needed to be stopped. She also claimed that one of her students from when she used to teach spiritual awareness started working at the clinic doing massage and then took to telling her clients when she had a spirit with her and started relaying messages to them. This boss was obviously very pleased with her student. I, on the other hand, thought it was irresponsible and potentially incredibly upsetting for the client, who let's face it, only went in with the intention of getting a massage and ended up communicating with their 'aunty Sheila'!

Some people have worked there a while and they obviously don't have a problem with the way the clinic or the boss work. I just did. Or... maybe they have a point and there is a market for Psychic Massaging.. Hmmmm... I wonder....

 

[AAffendemedy]

In a spa/clinic setting with set times for treatments you get used to working to the clock. But it doesn't give you much room for not making the treatment feel like the client is on a conveyer belt.

Hi Powerlily, Glad that your clients feel spoilt with your treatments. That is what I ry to do with my private clients. I just wanted to pick up on your point of going over the hour. Sometimes it may be the client who has the time constraint. But I guess it depends how long over the hour you go. I have found that for me going over time kinda makes a rod for my own back as I then feel under pressure to keep going over time for that client as that is what I think the client has come to expect.

Sorry to hijack your thread rainingfeet, sounds like your boss is a bit out there. I wouldn't return somewhere where the therapist decided to do some sort of reading for me without my permission. I've had someone try to do reiki on me when that isn't what I wanted.

The good thing about working in various settings even if you have a bad experience is that you quickly find out what ways of working suit you best.