Is ergonomics the answer?

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Hiya,

Interested to hear views...

Most of my clients are office workers and so I get a lot of RSI cases. I have found that in almost all cases, the person was using a desktop computer (not laptop) on an ergonomically designed workstation. I am yet to find a freelance client who uses a laptop to present with RSI. This was initially surprising because I assumed that laptops were worse for you (remember I'm not talking about neck pain etc, just RSI). I put this down to one simple fact. That the laptop users (who generally work from home) are constantly changing their position - kitchen table, on the sofa, lying in bed - when working. This changes the angle of the keyboard regularly, meaning that they are using their flexors and extensors slightly differently each time. Whilst the desktop users get their workstation assessment from the ergonomics expert and remain frozen in that position until their next assessment a year later.

I can't help feeling that the obsession with perfect workstation ergonomics is actually increasing the problem by forcing people to freeze their positions for months at a time (and thereby forcing them to repetitively use their forearm muscles in exactly the same way/angle/plane) and that maybe there should be a focus on getting people to change their positions regularly. Or is there?

This is just an observation, so ergonomics experts out there, be gentle.

Regards

Henry
 
Hi Happyfingers
you hit the nail on the head exactly when you say that our poor work force is perched in one position for far to long leading to the kinds of problems you are treating (all to often its the hardest workingpeople that suffer most).
Most of the functions of laptops can be used with the wrists/base of the handsresting on the keyboard itself as most of the keys are in easy reach, this is vital as the arms do not need to be elevated/airbourne as they float over the keys ala desk top = causing overuse at the shoulder. Laptop users have more neck problems due to inappropiate screen heightyou cant separate keyboard and screen to be arranged to suit the user.

No matter how good the ergonomics(for ergonomics read constraints) the constantdemands/strain placed on the muscleswill causethe fatigue/weakness/toxic syndrom that leads to fibrosis, triggerpoints, poor posture ect ect.

I had hopedfor acomplete designrethink that designs awork station around a human being rather than how we perch a person for hour after hour at their desk.
There areheight adjustable desks that allow people to stand and work (ยฃ2,000)which sounds great and does help butagain ties you to the desk. Designershave designed mainlyfor the functions of theoffice not the functions/needs of the worker.

Regards Steve

PS dont forget to send Bill Gates a christmas card !
 
you are correct, latest research has shown that ergonomically designed workstations are indeed creating lots of problems. We deal with so many clients who work in this environment, and are giving them the research to take to their employers. I will do my hardest to put a link on here to it, when I return to work.....however maybe a nudge by PM will help as it will be in the new year.
 
i work in an office and we do our workstation ergonomics yearly. we sit correctly throughout the hour whilst doing the on screen process. then as soon as its off we sit very differently, but still not moving around as much as we should.

Now i am just a trainee massage therapist but once people in the office hear you are training you get called upon every day and told of where they are stiff/sore. i didnt realise how awful it was. Out of a section of 30 people i have doen head/neck/shoulder/lower/upper back work on about 20 of them.
Compared to other people i have worked on who have not been office workers i have had nowhere near this number of complaints in so many areas. And in not just a little tension but really really stiff hard muscles ( im still learning the proper lingo)

Now the most worrying factor is in my office ( i work for HMRC , (inland revenue to us all) we have adopted the wonderful work practice that is LEAN!!

This means all processes that are deemed non productive/time wasting are removed. For example, if i needed to get a file/papers from our range, i would previously have walked along to the file store and collected it. No longer, i shout on my assistant who goes and gets it for me.
example- we used to collect printouts/letter from the printer that sat at the end of the room as we where working. under LEAN our assistants get them for us.

The aim is basically to have us sitting at out desk spending more time working on the computer than doing other tasks. so less and less time is spent moving around taking breaks away from the screen/desk. Timed targets are also added and we have noticed a massive increase in general tension/stress which ultimatly will increas the muscular problems. This i feel is going to lead to further problems along with the workstation ergonomics in general.

Unfortuatly LEAN is the new big thing to hit the office based industry. It was originally produced for production line companies such as toyota (who actually have machines doing the work so not so much need for massage there then).

lean is already in various banks and financial sectors who may be operating the system differently. But with HMRC employing tens of thousands of staff all adopting this work practice then it is very worrying.
 
Hi massaj
thanks for the update on LEAN as I was not aware of it. It really does sound like you are being veiwed as robots to be kept in place.

As a way of enabling my clients to keep moving Iencouragethem to have a large sizebottled water on their deskto continually sip from, then as nature takes its course visit the toilets on another floor.

I can only hope LEANwill belegally challeged as a working practiceand the employer liable to be sued for inhumain practice.
regards steve
 
im quite shocked at that! Health & Safety legislation is so strict that the minute its proven that sitting for long periods caused problems, there will be court action galore, but as its the government its us that end up paying anyway so they arent really bothered!
 
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    Tuesday at โค๏ธ๐Ÿ’™ ๐Ÿ’œโŽ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—š๐—”๐—ฅ ๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—ฉ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”โŽ ๐Ÿ’–๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’˜: ANA, CHERRY & TIFFANY. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ˜Ž ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž ANA is a young, short and sweet lady, 5โ€™1 & 105 Lbs, very tight, with a small to medium booty. Ana is a versatile honey who provides great massage, & can accommodate your needs. CHERRY is a young, slim, friendly and absolutely gorgeous Vietnamese beauty, 49 Kgs Today at 12:09 PM
  32. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ( 647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ( 437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅTODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: Julia๐Ÿ˜˜ - A shy new Korean girl waiting
  33. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ (905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ (437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅ Zoe - ๐Ÿ”ฅStunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality w
  34. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, New First Day Sexy Chinese Coco, Sexy Chinese Linda, Young Sexy Chinese Abie
  35. hiyamickey:
    6 girls working at Reinella wellness, young petite girl Amanda 20 years old, Sasha, Candy, Ocean, Yuki, Grace, @6262 Hwy7 until #1 Vaughan โ˜Ž๏ธ๏ผš905-851-4888
  36. laluna1857:
    Nu spring spa @ ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹sexy hot Viennese โค๏ธSpanish girls ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘working at Markham ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿš—7-15 Karachi dr Markham close Costco โ˜Ž๏ธ416-669-8508
  37. SugarLoveSpa:
    Tuesday at โค๏ธ๐Ÿ’™ ๐Ÿ’œโŽ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—š๐—”๐—ฅ ๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—ฉ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”โŽ ๐Ÿ’–๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’˜: ANA, CHERRY & TIFFANY. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ˜Ž ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž ANA is a young, short and sweet lady, 5โ€™1 & 105 Lbs, very tight, with a small to medium booty. Ana is a versatile honey who provides great massage, & can accommodate your needs. CHERRY is a young, slim, friendly and absolutely gorgeous Vietnamese beauty, 49 Kgs
  38. Reen:
    bbbj
  39. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ (647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ (416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Rita๐ŸฅฐA brand new girl from Northeast China of Russian descent has just arrived, a young sexy beauty with smooth white skin, natural 32C breasts with big juicy nipples and fantastic tight little bum bum waiting to be kissed and spa
  40. YM203:
    MoonMoon spa/416 887 8801/8131Yonge st #203 3 young Asian girl in Tuesday
  41. lotushubspa:
    Hello, dear customers, today Lotus Spa is located at 10737 Yonge St unit13 and provides female masseuses for customers. ๐Ÿ‘ฉโ€โš•๏ธTaiwan, China and South Korea have Anna.๐Ÿ’‹Cici๐Ÿ’‹Jissica๐Ÿ’‹ to provide customers with first-class service attitude and a large number of beauties๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ’‹Please contact phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ9052375885 or SMS 4163565876๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿคช
  42. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix blossom Spa โ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธtable shower ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘Body scrub ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน5124 Dundas W Etobicokeโ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366 Nice girl Luna joined. She can provide very good massage and sexy touch. She knows how to take instruction and please a man๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘ New girl Lisa ๐Ÿ˜˜ can provide deep Thai massage. Earlobe kiss๐Ÿ’‹She looks like an ordinary girl but has a round and beautiful ass. The hot body slide is her unique asset to attract men๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜œCome see her today. Feel free to walk in or make an appointment at any time.
  43. SL West:
    Shangri-la Spa, the place for luxury Asian massages in GTA. ๐ŸŽ‰ Two fab spots: Richmond Hill & Oakville. 9 gorgeous girls from China, Hong Kong, Japan & Korea โ€”Coco, Cindy, Cici, Yui, Lulu, Amber, Kelly, Anita, Evaโ€” ready to spoil you silly. ๐Ÿง˜โ€โ™€โœจ Thanksgiving special on now! ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽˆ Dial 647-578-8169โ˜Ž. Feel like 10 million bucks! ๐Ÿ’ฐโœจ Just swing by 160 East Beaver, Unit 12, Richmond Hill. Let the good times roll! ๐Ÿ™Œ
  44. SunriseRH:
    TUESDAY at ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—ก๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—ฆ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”: JULIA & LUISA. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 27, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿฒ โ˜Ž๏ธ JULIA is a slim but curvy Spanish attendant with natural B Cups & a pretty face. She can take a load off your mind. LUISA is a young,pretty, and slim Spanish senorita with slight curves and a hot hot hot attittude. SUNRISE SPA welcomes you
  45. NewOriental:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’š๐—ก๐—˜๐—ช ๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—”๐—Ÿ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY & VIVIAN. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿด๐Ÿญ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim & busty Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. VIVIAN is a pretty & very sexy Chinese doll, standing 5โ€™7โ€ tall, with a slim figure. Vivian is very friendly and versatile. NEW ORIENTAL SPA
  46. ASPA:
    TUESDAY at ๐€ ๐’๐๐€: Best Massage Rachel, & Wendy ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ RACHEL is a slim and attractive attendant, about 5โ€™4โ€ tall with nice responsive 34Cโ€™s and a captivating smooth rounded bottom. She is popular for her excellent massage skills and a little extra.
  47. ForeverWarden:
    Tuesday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Tracy & Vivian. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Tracy is an incredibly cute & pretty Japanese/Taiwanese mixed spinner, about 5โ€™1โ€ and 100 lbs. She is very popular
  48. HolidaySpa:
    Tuesday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธ: CICI, CINDY & JENNY. CICI is a young, slim & beautiful Chinese gem, petite 5โ€™2โ€ & 100 Lbs with firm but soft C Cups & the absolute best of services. CINDY is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best!
  49. Soul Relax Spa:
    โœจClick On Username and FOLLOW USโœ… Today ๐ŸŒธClaire๐ŸŒธNina๐ŸŒธIsabella โ˜Ž289 - 298 - 5662โ˜Ž๏ธ
  50. Lulu_Villa_Spa:
    Sami Gorgeous Model Type CBC Vietnamese School Girl Linda She is Vietnamese Very Spicy Sexy Girl Beautiful Face With Exotic Eyebrow Shape Suki From Taiwan, sweet girl Sexy tight body amazing C cups with Those incredible nipples โ˜Ž๏ธ647- 446-0886
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