got a prolapsed disk

[lalalalaa]

Im new here but i seem to be one of many with back problems.
A few months ago i had a sudden bolt of pain in my back and i couldnt walk, sit, lay properly and went to the doctors.I was prescribed diclofenac and codine phosphate and diazipam to help with the pain. I went for and still am having physio and have just had a mri scan which showed a prolapsed disk, two tears and the bottom for disks have degenerated to what an eighty year olds should look like, im 23!! I have always done heavy lifting work but right now i cant do anything. The radiographer said it could be over a year before i start to recover,does this sound right? What do people do about working with this type of problem, i cant bend or pick up things properly or sit down too long to work at computers? Is it just a case of waiting till its sorted, if it can be sorted.The radiographer said the degeneration is irreversable but i cant be done with at my age. Any advice on this would be appreciated, thanks

 

[shorty150217]

Does this sound right? - No.
Does your disk look like an 80 year old's - impossible to tell from an MRI, unless your medical adviser is a psyhic.
It could be over a year til you start to recover - yes it could, but it's extremely unlikely.

With the little information & given and without access to your scans, then I'm sticking my head on the block to a degree, but unless you're a particularly exceptional case (beware the tendency to think that we all are), then I would suggest that your health care professionals are in the wrong profession.

Assuming that you haven't grossly misinterpreted what was said, then they may want to consider applying to the Royal Shakespeare Company.

Spinal disc injuries prolpases & injuries are not a condition of the elderly. The long term result is a loss of height in the disc, which also occurs with old age, but it is not the same and should not be confused as such.

Your young, so it's very likely that you will make a good recovery. Okay you may need to make someeffort to avoid having a recurrent problem, but other than that.

Over 90% of us have some sort of interveretebral disc injury before we expire, so you would be abnormal if you didn't have one.

If you need further advice,treatment or opinion, then suggest seeing an osteopath.

Hope that helps - Andrew.

 

[Jorgilburg]

Thanks for the reply, the radiographer showed me the mri scans and said that the disks should be white and that when you are about 80 he would expect them all to be black but the bottom 4 of mine were all black and shouldnt be like it.He said that they have degenerated a lot and that some one my age should not have disks like these.What type of time scale is 'usual' for this type of injuy to repair its self? Ive been on strong pain killers for two months now and the physio doesnt seem to be doing much to help it.I stopped taking the pain killers for a few days to see if the physio helped but the pain was that bad i had to go back on them.

 

[Unbreakable]

Hi there

Welcome to the little club of prolapsed disc sufferers. I've just returned to work after having 8 weeks (5 of them in extreeeeeme pain) off work. I am not a health professional - so bear that in mind - but below is what worked for me.

1. drop the diazepam (i.e. Valium) as it is highly addictive. It is a muscle relaxant - and it's a waste since you can relax the muscles in other ways (more on that later).

2. I suggest taking anti-inflammatories... as much (most?) of the pain you are experiencing is from the inflammation (and the prolapse, of course, but no drugs will make that smaller) around the prolapse pressing on nerves. My suggestion is 400mg Ibuprofen, 8 hours apart (i.e. 3 times a day).

3. If you can avoid taking the codeine during the day then great. But take a decent dose (i.e. what the GP prescribed) an hour before bed... so that you get really good pain relief and can sleep properly. Good sleep is when repair occurs.

4. get yourself to a good osteopath. I can't recommend that enough. This was the turning point for me.

5. Phone the BackCare charity. They have offices all over the UK. You need to talk to folk who know backs.... not useless GPs... but people who deal with bad backs every day. These folk will give you advice, support, and will send you loads of clobber that will help.

6. If you are having probs with your pain management phone a pain management charity. They too give advice on what good pain management is... how to speak to your GP... and what alternatives there are.

7. consider getting regular therapy, if you can afford it, to reduce your stress levels. I personally couldn't afford it... but did it anyway. That made a big difference too. I chose reflexology - and it really helped with the back pain.

8. clean up your diet - and lose weight if you have to. The less weight you are carrying the less stress on your joints (and back). Most importantly take all sugar out of your diet... because sugar makes inflammations worse.

9. buy some aromatherapy oils. I put them in my bath and they really helped reduce the pain, and helped me sleep better too. There is a thread about which oils to choose. If you can't find it let me know and I'll dig it out.

10. walk - as much as you can. Use a walking stick if you need to. But walk every single day. I now do two 1 hour walks/day - but started at 5 mins (actually, it was less than that).

11. relax your muscles. The oils, the pain-killers-before-bed, the reflexology, will all help. However you will really have to seriously start doing muscle relaxations (the pain management charity will sell you good CDs for about £4 each). The tight muscles cause pain, and pull the spine (and hips) in odd ways... which compound the problem.

12. once you are well enough start to think about doing specific exercises to strengthen your back muscles - to better support your spine in a nice healthy position. And to increase your suppleness by stretching. Your osteopath can advise. The back charity will send you a factsheet with exercises on them - but take them to your osteopath. I am about to start Pilates, which is supposed to be very good for folk who've had back problems... and don't want them to return.

13. be aware of your posture... ALWAYS. Some parts of the UK have occupational health officers (Scotland for example) who come to your home, and offer advice over the phone. Again these are free (charities).

A bit overwhelming perhaps? But there are loads of things you can do to sort your back out. The main ones are to see an osteopath (you'll probably need at least 4 sessions), to walk every day, and to relax the muscles. Oh, and the anti-inflammatories.

N

 

[fhefvuxqireikmedu]

Is the codine a strong pain killer and is it addictive? I take about 240mg a day on average along with upto 600mg of diclofenac and sometimes paracetomal aswell.

 

[choney]

Is the codine a strong pain killer and is it addictive?

I don't think it is addictive, but codeine is a morphine derivative (and as you know, morphine is one of the big guns).

I take about 240mg a day on average along with upto 600mg of diclofenac and sometimes paracetomal aswell.

I took co-codamol (which is codeine + paracetamol). The over-the-counter stuff is only 8mg of codeine + 500mg paracetamol, whereas the stuff I got on script was 30mg codeine + 500mg paracetamol. I took one of each before bed (i.e. 38mg)... so that was enough to ensure I slept well. However you may have to experiment with how long before going to bed is best. I found that after 90mins I had maximum pain relief. You may be different (different metabolism, body weight, etc).

It seems like you could do with some good pain management advice. Why don't you go to wikipedia and look up the stuff you are taking... so that you are better informed about those drugs? Armed with that information you can either approach a pain management charity (or contact the pain management clinic at your local hospital) for advice. Then either alter what you take depending on what they say, or go to your GP to discuss.

If you have good pain management then you'll be able to sleep better (this aids disc repair/recovery) and follow the exercise guidance your osteopath gives you. Don't just rely on the pain management though.... because you also have to address the cause of the problem... or you'll find yourself having the same conversation in X months/years time.

N

 

[Pompal 09.]

I meant to ask last time... you said that you have been seeing a physio. Is that helping? Because if it isn't then perhaps you should change to another one, or see a different manipulative therapist (e.g. chiropractor, osteopath).

 

[rawr! im a dinosaur B!@#$]

I might try a different physio because when i tried not taking the pain killers to see if the physio is helping i still have the same amount of pain as when i started about 6 weeks ago.Do people normally keep on working with a prolapsed disk? I do heavy lifting all day at work and so have not been working since it started as the physio and doctors said it would make it worse.

 

[qqrlmbwp]

Sorry it took so long to return and further apologies, as yes, it sounds like I underestimated the severity of your problem. It does sound like an unusually severe case.

Good to see that Neukolnn has provided some excellent ideas and advice. It goes to show that there's no substitute for having been there!

Regarding work - if it involves lifting, then it's a definate no, no for the time being and even after recovery, then you'll likelyneed to rethink your lifting technique and look after your back.

This is likely to take at least a few months to be pain free.Treatment is only likely to speed recovery as there is no quick fix for this kind of problem.

Andrew.

 

[foolery]

Thanks for all the replys, they have been very helpful. Its been three months now since it first started and im still in pain.Ive got a bit more movement now than when it first started but just carrying the washing basket in from the garden is straining it, not very good when my job involves lifting cement bags all day long. Ive got my appointment with the consultant on monday to get more in depth results about my mri scan. Im hoping the degeneration of the bottom disks wont cause me too many problems but with what the radiographer said it dosent sound too promiseing. Ive had traction the last time i visited the physio and it did relieve the pressure while i was stretched out but the moment i was back together it all came flooding back, it did feel good though to be able to relax for the first time in 3 months while stretched out, i was getting used to being tensed up constantly. Ill post up what the consultant says after ive seen him.

 

[CHARLES A]

I promise that this is the last time I'll mention this (otherwise you are going to think I am pressurising you)... but have you considered seeing an osteopath? I saw a physio three times (and it was no help whatsoever) - and I think that she was a good physiotherapist, but what she did/suggested was useless. The osteopath helped me understand what was going on, and helped me work with my body (and the pain) and not fight against it... which was what I was doing before. I can share with you - that on Thursday I stopped taking painkillers. So, for the first time in 10 weeks I've not taken anything... it feels great.

As an aside, Healthy Pages has conveniently placed an "Inversion" contraption ad at the top of this thread. Perhaps that might be something to consider, since it also takes the strain off your disks - much like traction does.

 

[errant Terran ranter]

Hi i'm new to the forums.
I've been off work since febuary,with a prolaspe disc.Had a MRI scan done and was recommend an Epidural Op.
After coming around from this op, had a severve headache,and was told to take Paracetamol.When i got home the headache continued for a week ,and i called the consultant and they made another date for me to attend the hospital to have a Blood Patch Op.A few weeks later, i was still in pain and felt like nothing had worked.
The consultant,then recommend another Epidural Op. By this time, i felt like o.k , i'l give it another go.The trouble was that when i was slowly coming around,i could hear the doctor shouting " Give maxine more oxygen now". When i did finally, came around i'd asked the nurse, "Whats going on".
The only answer she could give me was that i have very low blood pressure,and just lay down for a while.
When i got home the hospital has called me twice inthat week to see if i'm doing o.k.
The Problem that i have now is that i'm still in pain and taking lots of medication and waiting now to see my consultant again "2nd Aug".
The tablets that i'm on are: Diclofenac,Diazepan,Codipar,Amitriptyline,Lyrica,and Nurofen.
I feel like i'm walking around like a zombie,and getting nowhere,as soon the tablets wear off the pain strikes back.Oh by the way, my job involves heavy lifting garden furniture,as well as selling it.I've tried swimming,walking..
Any idea's appreciated, as im getting depressed..
Thanks..

 

[NOUB]

Just a quick note to say:

Try and avoid any rash decisions when you see the consultant.As our new member MadMaxillustrates - the proverbial quick fix operation not only can go pearshaped, but doesn't always take the pain away.

As an osteopath I havea shed full of stories of innappropriate of failed surgical procedures, but I didn't want to worry you, but equally you aught to know. I accept that I am biased, but agree with neukolnn that consulting an osteopath for a second opinion could save you a whole heap of grief in the long term. If theyadvise that the best way forward is surgery, then fair enough, but it does sound like you're very much on the mend.

I would advise that you consider another occupation though. You're likely to be better by remaining active either in work or recreation, but lifting 50kg bags o cement, is certainly not something you aught to be doing.

The use of an inversion table is something I recommend to those with a significant loss of vertebral disc height, though.

To MadMax - advice would be the same - see an osteopath. As your problem has persisted after surgery, then suggest trying to find a local osteopath that also uses acupunture.

Andrew.

 

[Jose Moreira]

Hello this is my first "post" and it'll have to be brief as sitting at the desk is quite painful.
I was sat doing what i am doing now on the evening of 10 Mar 2006 at about 7.15 pm when i was floored by violent pain in my right leg. I could do nowt!! Couldn't stand sit, walk, layflat, stand etc but suvived until Monday lunch when aDoctor arrived and administered pain killers( which didn't!!) and said6 to 12 weeks.
Two weeks later i got some pain killers "tramadol" (which did but i felt drunk all the time) I dont mind being drunk but the pain was still there.
I have soldiered on since then and am now in the N H S system and have just had me fist "free" 20 mins on traction with more to come. Last week however the pain started to get bad so i asked if i could have some more "tramadol".
I think I will get pain free eventually and will keep you posted but there is one very worrying developement which i am embarassed about:- Impotence.
Is the ability to achieve an orgasm a developement of sustained back pain.
Yesterday was the first time inmy life (i'm just turned 60) that i have failed in achieving an orgasm.
I have searched Google for the side effects of Tramadol and this is not one of them.
Any similar stories out there?

Chris jt

 

[Starhawke lost in emotion]

Ive had a meeting with the consultant today and it turns out to be five degenerated disks not 3 or 4. The damage is irreversable.The prolapsed disk could be pressing on nerves higher up my back giving some numbness in my left leg but he thinks that with it being higher up it should just be in the thigh not the whole leg and foot.Ive been refered to another spinal surgeon who is more specialised in this area for a second opinion, just got to wait now for the letter to arrive. He said about a leading surgeon thinking back problems could be genetic and that i might have been destined to have a bad back in the future but with the heavy lifting it has brought on the condition early.He said he didnt want to send me for an operation on it because in five years time it would be just the same again and that he has seen too many people come out worse after being operated on. If it was genetic my grandfather has artheritis in his spine, this may be an underlaying cause of it but i dont know, ill check the artheritis forum for more info on it.I might try acupuncture for the pain, it can be done on the nhs but im hoping to get it done with my private med care.

For the post by Chrisjt i hope impotence isnt a side effect of these type of pain killers, i havent noticed any change in that area. I suppose it could just be in your head, the pain and suffering could be knocking your libido a bit which is understandable, trying to sleep in a comfortable position is hard enough never mind trying to have sex and be pain free.

 

[Katamadze]

Hello to all...
I have a prolapsed dics and its worn out, like kev25v6 said.. on the mri scanthe disc isblack instead of white ie like a old persons. My consultant also found that i have 2 fractures in my spine too. (im 32 yrs old). i have been on all sorts of pain killers. I started on co-codamal 8-500mg, upto 30-500mg ,diclofenicwhich had no affect what so ever, then tramodol and now on to morphine 120mg per day and ibuprofen 400mg 4 times a day, and wishthese would stop the pain... i now have hip pain, arm and shoulderpains , swollen feet and legs and just like so many other people,am so depressed, which ive also got tablets for. Ive been like this since before christmas. im now can not walk without mywalking stick.
Chris mentioned Tramadol, these are a drug that in easier terms numb the central nerves.
When i was on them, i had very little feeling in the more sensertive areas, and there was no chance of an orgasm, so i dont think you should really worry, your doctor should have told you this.
Ive read through so many of these forums and it seems that so few people get the same advice from anywhere. i have a phiso that whats me to do as little as possible but to keep moving around in short, gentlemovements, anda consultant that wants me to do everything as normal which is obviously inpossible.
I was given the choose to have the op of spinal fusion and bone grafting which after alot of thought and looking into and reading lots, i have decided to have it done. i am due to have to op at the end of August time and im really scared but i beleive i dont have that much choose, be like this for a very long time or take the chance that it could be better... and i feel its worth a chance as i cant be like this any longer than i have to...
I have always been in the bars and restauant bussiness and i now have to re-think my career path as, i dont think ill be able to run round like i used to, doing 60-80 hrs a week...
The only thing we can all do is tobe positive about our problems and believethat it all happens for a reason and make it a positive thinginstead of a negitive.....

Good Luck to everyone!!!!!

Karen

 

[weatheredmom]

Hi thereI have just recieved a letter from the Doctor saying that on advice from the Physio' dep't he has referred me to the Rhumatology dept't "about having an epidural" and that they should be sending me an appointment in due course.Will they do a scan before sticking the needle in me back i wonder?I once had "tennis elbow" many years ago and the then Doc' said to give it a couple of weeks before i made another app't and that when i did, to tell the receptionist that i was to have a cortisone injection so that there would be a nurse in attendance "to keep my arm still".Within a week the "tennis elbow" cured itself and 12 years later has no come back!!I hope this threat of an epidural with have the same effect.With regards to impotence, i can cofirm that it is all due to the Tramadol.Without scaring me to death, does anyone out there have any positive things to say about epidural injections.All the best Chris

 

[dr_smith789]

I had an epidural several months ago and have to say found it to provide only very short term relief and didn't remedy the underlying problem which was a disk sticking in the nerves. I've heard it works for some people (solves the issue), gives temporary relief to others (in my case about a week) and for others does nothing. It's not the most pleasant experience in the world but may be worth a shot though I know others on the forum think it's a waste of time as doesn't address the underlying issue.

 

[dashanyaos]

Thanks for that Steve.I was rather hoping someone would come on and say that it worked ok.At least the N H S will have gone through the various proceedures (if it doesn't work) and the next step will be an op' which if they said "tommorrow" i'd go willingly.We will just have to see ,eh. Chris

 

[HacVirooii]

I'm now 9 weeks post op for a microdiscectomy and have to say it has changed my life. Gone is the back pain almost completely and this has changed my state of mind incredibly. I know a lot of people are against ops but I tried everything else and put off an op for as long as possible. In all honesty now though, Iwish I'd just got it sorted ages ago.

Obviously I have a dodgy back for life and am now far more conscious of keeping it strong (exercises every morning, regular pilates, swimming most days) but it is such a relief to be out of the sort of pain I was in before.

I'm not saying everyone should try and get an op as it's been well documented (here and elsewhere) that they don't work for everyone (I feel very lucky), so try everything else first but as a last resort it's not as bad an experience as you might expect.....