Ethics of Massage

[Robsterkz]

Hi all,

my friend who lives in the south of England went for a massage ... I couldn't recommend cos don't know anyone near her. She had a bad experience.
As part of the massage HE massaged her BREASTS ... it being the first time she had had a massage she didn't know if supposed to do this so said nothing even though she felt very uncomfortable and vulnerable.
Another friend who is a qualified massage therapist said that when she was trained the breasts were not done even if by a woman.

What do you think?????????????

Flower

 

[arendakrana]

Hi Flower

Some do and some don't it all depends on the individual therapist, the type of treatment being given by the therapist, the person you are treating and sometimes on what you are treating them for.

If she was not happy then she should have said something as soon as she felt uncomfortable at that point the therapist should have covered her up and explained their intentions and the whys and wherefores and if she still was not happy then omitted the breasts from that treatment.

This sort of thing should really be sorted out at the consultation stage where the treatment should be fully explained and anything that is undesirable to the person aired and sorted, everyone is different and we do have to try and accommodate peoples wishes but the key word these days seems to be informed consent which you cannot get unless you fully discuss what the treatment entails and ask them if they have any questions etc.

 

[Madeline Ray]

As a massage therapist, I have been trained to avoid the breasts and even to avoid this area on a man. However, I do know that in some countries this is usual.

I think it was unprofessional that the therapist did not explain what he intended to do and check it was OK. I always explain before the massage the areas I am going to cover, as I usually massage the abdomen and some people don't like it, so I always check to see if it is OK.

The point is that your friend was made to feel uncomfortable and this shouldn't happen during a massage.

Lesley

 

[kuitan]

Hi Paul..

I am a little confused here, if I have read yoru reply right, are you saying depending on the treatment anyone receives at times can allow breasts to be massaged? I cant seem to get my head around this.... why would anyone want their breasts massaged or any other personal place? what I mean is... what purpose would a massage in those area benefit us? and what would the massage be known as?


Flowerxx

 

[Pompal 09.]

Hi Flower

It would be known as a massage or a part of a massage treatment, if you where suffering from mastitis, painful or sore breasts or you had scar tissue after having a lump removed or even more so if you have had a radical mastectomy then massage would be very beneficial, also breasts are included in MLD as quite a few of the lymph nodes run through the breast on its way to the jugular vein and it also means that people get a regular check for lumps and problems which if detected at an early stage could well save their lives, this applies to male as well as females.

You also have the pectoralis muscles running under the breast which may need attention and the neuro/vascular holding points which run either side of the sternum which are very effective when certain dysfunctions are present in the body, there are lots of benefits to having your mammary glands massaged from a health point of view.

 

[harrry]

Hi Paul...

I have rang my friend today and I mentioned feed back from a web site, and then she dropped another bombshell, the therapist asked her to remove all her clothes, which I think is totally out of order, bearing in mind she just went for a normal relaxing body massage.

I hear what you are saying about the benefits of breast examination, however, I do not think that it is the job of a massage therapist to 'examine' a female client in such a way, to do suggests to the client, that they are medically qualified to diagnose. If we go alone the lines that it is okay for a male therapist to handle the female breasts then would it also be in order for a female therapist to massage the testacles of a male client? it is equally valid to suggest that regular examination of the testicles would identify early signs of cancer of the testes

Flowerxx

 

[Kim C]

Hi Flower

You are welcome to your opinions the same as the rest of us and as you probably know therapist do not diagnose we refer our patients to the doctor if we find something wrong and let them do the diagnosing which is as you rightly point out their domain not the therapist, but that does not stop a therapist knowing when something needs referring.

I think you are confusing mammary glands with sexual organs which they are not, they have one purpose only and that is to feed the offspring, they play no active part in the production of the offspring therefore they are not a part of the sexual makeup of either males or females.

Unlike energy channelling which can be done hands off physical therapy is done hands on there is no other way to do it and I think anyone who thinks they can go for a full body treatment and leave their clothes on are a little naive to say the least, it is a lot easier to do a full massage treatment without any clothes but pants are usually optional and the patient should be kept covered as much as possible during a treatment apart from the parts you are working on.

Generally there is a lot of professionalism goes into building a successful practice, sexuality does not come into it, therefore the patient has normally had the treatment fully explained and they have talked over any fears or phobias the patient has which are accommodated where it is possible, then the patient prepares for the treatment knowing what to expect during the treatment and if they are happy they will return for more treatments, if not then they will not and you will soon go out of business.

No one is forced to receive any sort of treatment and had your friend said stop the treatment I am sure would have stopped instantly, there unfortunately seems to have been a big communication breakdown with your friend and the person who gave her the treatment which is unfortunate, she was asked to fully disrobe and did not make any objections which she should have done if she was not happy, in fact if she was not happy she should have walked out at that point and saved herself any discomfort what so ever.

 

[05WKbelkis]

Hi Paul...

U quote..... I think you are confusing mammary glands with sexual organs which they are not, they have one purpose only and that is to feed the offspring, they play no active part in the production of the offspring therefore they are not a part of the sexual makeup of either males or females.

Anatomically speaking, you are quite correct, however it is a little naive to believe this is true in practice, when topless females are seen to pose in a provocative sexual manner in the media.

I can accept that the massage of the breasts may form an integral part of manual lymphatic drainage (mld). However this person presented herself for a relaxing de-stressing massage, which is not what she got, she was made to feel embarrassed and vulnerable and this episode has put her off all forms of massage.

Flower

 

[mike Justine]

this has got a bit heated hasn't it?

Paul - I think you have been here before right? De ja vu??? We had this very discussion on the old forum and you made the same good points there.

Yer bein' a bit harsh Flower! Some therapists do breasts and bums, some don't. I have known both - it happened to me years ago but not with a man - oooo maybe she was a lesbian? She did tell me what she was doing though. And a good therapist who does breasts as part of their routine would see the breasts as mammary glands and not something to do with pole dancing or lap dancing or whatever.

I think what your friend has to ascertain is whether this guy is (a) very professional or (b) very pervy. He can't be both. She should check him out and you shouldn't worry so much about it.

 

[Pompal 09.]

This has to do with ethics, appropriateness and understanding. A good therapist worth their salt would explain which areas are to be treated and would expect feedback to ascertain whether this was deemed appropriate. If during the treatment something was found and the therapist thought that the client may benefit from x instead of what was initially suggested, it would be normal once again to discuss things and not to proceed without authorisation. As Paul says, there are instances where massage of this area would be deemed appropriate, however, the issue here is not the reasons, but the actions taken by the therapist, which did not lead to a satisfactory treatment.

Do you know where your friend found details of this therapist and has she spoken to his employer about what went on? Spoken to friends about where to massage in the past, we were taught as a rule of thumb not to massage a mans abdomen, and I've never even been taught to massage the buttocks, although some people do get taught that as part of body massage. For a regular massage, I wouldn't have thought the pectoral muscles would be touched. (Except for the reasons mentioned by Paul).

 

[theowlery_hedwig]

Just re-read the bit about 'removing all her clothes'?

Is this unusual then? My clients remove everything except pants and some of the pants I see aren't worth wearing I can tell you.

I don't think I would remove any item of clothing that I didn't want to and I think if you are uncomfortable with taking off your underwear you should say so.

 

[Who <3]

Hi Candie

The physical therapies do not suit everyone I am afraid, and not everyone is happy enough with their bodies to remove their clothes and let someone else look after it for them, at the end of the day it is all down to choices yes that word again Flower in the physical therapy world like the channelling world we grow and move on from our initial training and again receive guidance ect just the same.

Just like channelling we expand and in doing so are able to offer more thorough treatments on a holistic level where we try and do as much as is possible within the constraints of the therapy we are applying, everyone's treatment is their treatment the only thing that is a constant is usually where you start and finish the treatment as you never know what you will find or where you will be guides to in that treatment until it starts.

People who are used to receiving this type of treatment are happy to trust that the therapist intentions are to do what is best for them and enjoy the treatments and the benefits they receive from them.

Hi Gussie for a general body massage you should massage all the muscles of the body including the origins and insertions as that is what you are being paid for, you would not like to pay a decorator to paint a room for you and them not do the skirting boards would you ;-)

 

[pafthpha]

Hi Flower

I've been reading this thread, and couldn't make up my mind what side of the fence I am on. I don't massage breasts, but I do bums. I'm not sure if I would like someone to massage my breasts without discussing it with me first. It is fine for everyone to say your friend should have asked the therapist to stop, or shouldn't have got completely undressed if she didn't want to, but in the real world if this was her first massage and felt quite embarrassed by the situation she may have paniced and probably couldn't decide how to respond. Yes as a client you have a responsibility to say what you don't feel comfortable with and Yes as a therapist you should explain the treatment, especially if it involves intimate parts of the body. A therapist may see breasts as mammory glands, but if the client sees them as sexual organs, the therapists opinion really doesn't matter as I feel massaging sexual organs would be deemed inappropriate behaviour.

Ultimately a good massage therapist would have been able to tell from the clients reaction to massaging the breasts if she felt comfortable. Your friend may have blushed, began sweating, increased heart & breathing, fidgetting, facial movement & probably tensed up. The therapist should have stopped and explained their intentions.

I hope your friend hasn't been put off massage forever as she obviously feels it could have been beneficial.

 

[Griffyn]

Hi Flower
Tried to email you but cant get you through HP, I didnt want to get involved in this heated discussion.

I have been trained to do bums (through towels) and pectorals but not breasts, if a woman or a man asked I would do them, as for removing her clothers this is a no no as far as I am concerned - it simply is not necessary. Anyway aside from all of that as this was a first session the therapist should have run through his intentions as a matter of course so she knew what to expect and check this is ok and he should definitely noticed clients reactions......so from that point of view a big thumbs down.

Anyway I am based in the south of england and know some very competent therapists as I am sure a lot of HP'ers do so just ask.............Please try and get her to go to another one to reassure her this experience is not usual.

Hope that helps somewhat
Love
T
x

 

[larkinsdelamare]

Lots of points of views here!
In my view the most important thing is how the client feels about their own body and certainly if a therapist intends to massage a 'private' area and by that (again how the client views it) could be bums as well.
I would be horrified if a therapist did it to me, in fact a few years ago i had some accupunture and afterwards the man gave me an accupressure massage in which he placed his hands inside my knickers. I was quite scared but didnt know if this was supposed to happen so said nothing. I know i should have been more assertive but as said you do place yourself in the hands of a professional, so expect it to be so. I even had my boyfriend in the room (although on the other side of the curtain) so felt it must be ok. Never went back though it freaked me out too much. He was also chinese and couldnt speak english very well.
I hope it doesnt put your friend off though flower as massage can be so relaxing. maybe she should just go for a back and shoulder until she finds a therapist she is comfortable with.

 

[ii love youu :)]

Hi TigerB and Vicki,

Thank you for your thoughts and or experiences.. and glad that someone here agrees that there are some places that are a no no... but as in life, it is each to their own..

Vicki, I am sorry to hear what you experience, and its true when you are new to having something done, u put all your trust into the therapist, but as in all walks of life, there is always someone that will abuse that trust...

Flower

 

[K.O.Deangelo]

Hi Tracey

Are you saying you don't ask your clients to undress? Bit confused?

The trust thing works both ways. I know a male therapist who is very popular with the local ladies and he is very professional etc. He was doing acupuncture and came in the room to find the young lady stepping out of her knickers and saying 'shall I take these off?' Er...what for?

It isn't just the client who has to be careful.

 

[steptoe]

Hi All,

I try and go to different therapists to gauge how my own massages are, and try and pick up new methods/applications etc.

Yesterday I went for a sports massage, and the masseur did my pecs. I'm a male so didnt mind, but it got me thinking about how important the pre-treatment consultation is.

I had specifically mentioned a couple of problems ie, right knee, and left elbow, and waited to see what would happen.

The massage was brisk, and I got the impression that it was his standard routine, with perhaps a nominal look at the specific areas I mentioned.

This in conjunction with the massage of the pecs, led to the conclusion that I must clarify everything I will be doing in the massage, and adapt to the clients needs.

I would have been happier, if he had spent the hour working on my leg and arm in more depth, than having a full treatment.

So to conclude this diatribe, tell your therapist what you want, and therapists, listen to your clients, and adapt where necessary - dont get stuck into therapy by numbers.


All comments gratefully appreciated.

 

[marroophy]

I think you hit the nail on the head Topcat. The one thing that VTCT and my tutor drummed into me was the importance of

1. Explanation - really important to explain what the treatment will involve, in a language that the client will understand.

2. Picking up on the client - noting if a client was anxious or nervous, by observing body language, etc. Most nervous clients won't admit to it and some try to cover it up by trying to appear over-confident, but a good therapist should be aware of this and try to do everything to make the client feel comfortable.

3. Adaptation of treatment - Ensuring that the client's expectations of the treatment are noted. If they are not realistic, explain this to the client, again in a way that they understand and agree a treatment plan. The treatment should also be adapted to suit those that are anxious, maybe spending more time on the explanation. As a student, I had an extremely nervous client and a technique I used was when moving from one area of the body to the next, to place my hand on the area that I was about to treat, over the towel, before removing the towel, to prepare them.

Incidentally, we were taught to massage the legs up to the knicker line, the abdomen down to the pelvis (although this would be explained to the client during the consultation, as some clients don't like this). Breasts in men and women were a definite 'no no' and if we so much as exposed part of a breast during an assessment we would have failed.

Basically, I'm not saying that it is wrong to treat these areas, but this should be explained in full to the client's satisfaction and handled sensitively. As well as the physical benefits of massage, the main benefit is relaxation, and if the client is made to feel anxious during the treatment, the therapist has not done their job properly.

Lesley

 

[Mr.Lucky]

I have to confess - I exposed a nipple - only once though - got the hang of not doing it after that!