Do "squeezes" help, if you have back pain? ...or make worse?

[Alan Y]

Hi guys! I'd so appreciate any advice.[/align]
I have some pain in the back, that concerns me a lot. [/align]It has been sort of a 'nuisance' and a worry for a long while..., but now, it's getting to be quite a bit more painful!![/align]
I guess the big questions are:
stretching. does stretching help? Does it make it worse given that I have lower back pain now ....(obviously, I am listening closely to my body when I stretch). ....(on stretching, my doctor confused. He said along the lines of "don't start 'muscling', ab-wise, until you lose the pain by stretching." but what if the pain doesn't go away by stretching??? Do you start 'muscling'?...[/align]
pelvic floor muscle exercises: does the squeezing help? I do 4 squeezes.. The 'holding the toilet', 'belly button down', 'on your 2 sides' spinal ones. Plus, I do them riding, standing. I try to do them a lot now, especially in the last few days. are the pelvic floors the key to unlocking this pain. I have a feeling these exercises might be. I will keep going for a few weeks. I hope to experience a change. I already experience significant relief from these different exercises, but it doesn't last for too too long.[/align][/align]Also.. are crunches, push-ups bad..? ......[/align]
Sorry for blabbering. Any advice would be extremely appreciated. And apologies obviously for repetition of stuff done. Thank you. This site is fantastic.[/align]
-----------------------------------------a bit about me
the problem: I think it is 1 very slightly prodruding disc or something like that. It is particularly related to the left side of that lower back area (apparently, one of the conditions of this particular disc problem).[/align]
the pain: sometimes, I should say, I feel fanastic. This morning, on my bike, I was feeling on top of the world) but: much of the time, I feel that damn pain. (now, more often than before, and more intense&gt I feel the pain, particular lower left back there... When I sit down, stand up, walk sometimes, ride sometimes, ...Do anything just about.[/align]
the remedy: (well, I have tried a few things. Some things have seemingly helped in the past, like stretching and certainly all the 'squeezing' exercises. I had let it go a bit in the last month or two... And now, it's not good at all. ) about the remedy: .... First there are many many big questions. Part of what's stressing me out is the not knowing the answers to these. [/align]

 

[RAO M.K.]

Yes the pelvic floor exercises may well help you to get better - low back pain and poor pelvic floor strength have a strong link, so by improving your PF you will be supporting your low back.
As for stretching - yes, get the right stretch and you will get some relief, but it may be you need that stretch because you sre habitually holding yourself badly and shortening the muscles : the muscles will just go back to where they were before if you don't adjust yourself posturally.
Has someone had a look at your posture? your spinal alignment counts, all the way from the base of the head down to the tailbone - any deviation (eg holding the head to one side) will have an effect somewhere else. How about your feet? Dropped arches? Bunion joints?
Do you sit straight?

Are you active? It makes all the difference to make a point of getting up and walking around at least every half an hour, even on a car journey, if you suffer from a bad back.
Walk, swim, use your body, let your spine move,as well as do your exercises, and I can almost promise that you will get better.

Sorry - more questions - but I hope that's useful.
Sharon.

 

[Sarah K]

Thank you so very much! I'm sure you know how stressful a problem it is, especially when it sort of increases in pain, and you're not sure exactly what to do, nor even what NOT to do! It's a bit worrying!

But your advice is greatly appreciated.

The pelvic floors that I do now... do help me quite a lot in the short term, most of the times I do them. I would be so so happy if I can get that 'good feeling', the no pain feeling, all the time. (Of course).

stretching: The stretching is pretty good.. but a worry is that for some stretches, particularly that left lower back, the body says "No!". I want to do them, but not when the body says they are making it worse. ...................so most of the time, after a few good stretches, doing what I can... I then move on to the muscles.

about posture: mmm, yeah, you have a really good point. Right now, for example, my pos isn't great! But I am aware of it, and I am trying to sit back into most chairs, and so on. About sitting on the ground, what's the way around not having bad pos there? I ride my bike a LOT (!), and of course my back is not straight there> is bike-riding particularly bad for posture, out of interest? My posture generally is not too bad I think. I havea slightly 'bulging disc'.What else... oh yeah,slight pronating arches down the bottom! Always wear the adjusting cushions (forget the name).

Again, thank you so much for your help. Really nice of you!

muscles: as I was reading your post again... yeah, I do walk, I ride ALL the time (! ) , I stretch a lot, I do crunches (they're not bad, are they?), push-ups, I do a few different PFs... but the prob that stresses me out is that lately, it is (sometimes) hurting me a bit when I WALK! I'm like, what the!!!

The problem is particularly on that left lower back.. Apparently related to the slightly bulging disc. I guess I was confused quite a bit by the doc. "Don't muscle up till the pain goes by stretching." but what if the pain doesn't go by stretching. Surely, you gotta work on the PFs. In the past, I have of course experienced relief from the PFs, and also from gently workingthose 2 vertical spinal muscles just left and right of the spine.

Sorry for going on and on. I don't expect all the answers here. I will look into this great site to research too... trouble is getting time to net search!

 

[Tessa Cain]

Hi Fox - have a look at this thread - [link=http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/15/05/24.html]http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/15/05/24.html[/link]- illiopsoas willcertainly be affected with a disc problem, so this may help - although in your case I'd bring it up with an osteopath rather than DIY.
Stomach crunches- unless you are doing them under supervision - jsut don't bother at the moment - done wrong they put more pressure on the area. Better to do basic core stability work - and again you really need some supervision. I'd advise a Pilates instructor (Body Control/Pilates Foundation/Stott/Polestar). Am biaised - but then that's how I got over my slipped disc.

The bike - probably not helping - your spine (unless you're on a bike where the handles are a fair bit higher than the seat - will be in a c-curve, or flat, and it will be static. When you ae on you bike take your minds eye to what's happening to that disc.
Don't do the stretches if they hurt - they are probably generic ones which are not helpful to your individual case.
Point and flex your feet, try to pick up a tenis ball with your toes, and with your arches (try to develop the flexor muscles of the feet) Rise up and down on teh balls of your feet, keeping the big toe joints down.
Good luck
Sharon

 

[Rawrbooklovingninjar]

Hi spinal music!!! forgive me for just jumping in here with my own details. I have been reading lots of threads and stuff ( ) .. including just now, some really helpful stuff you wrote in February and so on!

but I wanted to just put down what I do.. .stretches, and muscles.

muscles
I saw your post about transverse abdominus, multifidus and so on. I believe that I am working those muscles.. (but not 100% sure, as I'm kinda on my own here. I first heard about those muscles from a library book, and have been doing the exercises. )

For refresher's sake, and for your opinion too, how do you work the transverse abdominus, multifidus? .....and any others in there!

Gotta go! thanks for now! [/color]

 

[Martleight]

TAs(Transversus Abdominus) and PF (Pelvic Floor) can be worked usefully from semi-supine (lying on floor with knees bent) - check your own alignment, or more usefully get someone else to check it for you. You can use your hands to check your neck/head posn, and ribs/hips - the same length down both sides. Are knees even?

Imperative that you should be breathing and relaxed while you are drawing on these muscles.
Put your fingers of one hand on the pubic hair line under your in line with your belly button, the other under your low back. Put your knees together - this will disable your glutes, which tend to draw on and make you push your back onto the floor. Draw slowly and gently up through the back passage, and then for a bloke you need to draw on the same muscles as if you were moving an erection upwards. For a woman it's drawing up the vaginal muscles towards the low back, and both canalso draw on the muscles the stop you mid-flow on the loo. The back passage is generally the stronger "feeling":all are linked inextricably through the central tendon that lies from the tail-bone to the pubic bone. They draw up through concentric circles of muscles - like a telescope. Depending on thetilt of the pelvis one group may be felt more or less strongly. For example in a posterior tilt (the waist dropped to the floor) the back passage is felt more strongly, and with the back arched the anterior muscles can be felt more. Try it while you're sitting reading this - what happens when you draw up your PF as you bring your hip bones forward and back?
Ok, back to lying on the floor. You have your fingers on you pubic hair line. You may feel the muscles under your fingers draw away from you as you draw the muscles on. These are your TAs - and share a nerve network with the PFs and will usually come on with the PF. To further their use - their action is to slide around the waist to the low back, where they will have a strengthening action on the spinal column. So think slide, not grip or squeeze. If you see them in action (on ultrasound) they move like a pair of curtains opening, away from centre, and thicken as they go. I can't emphasise enough how important it is that this is done slowly and gently - otherwise they just will not get around the back to multifidus - which are more than likely ina sorry old state. And that you should be relaxed and breathing.
As for being on your own - if you don't make progress, you need a physio really to look at you - or a Pilates instructor like me.
I haven't time to go onto the other muscles here - there's a book called the Body Control Pilates Manual which I think you should look at
Regards,
Sharon

 

[Alexandria]

(edit: I'll have a really good, long long look at the post above! Cheers! brilliant. ...... I do enjoy doing them, and I really relax into them, I spend time (morning and night and in between, sometimes), breathe in and out slowly while I am holding..)

Hi! Wanted to say, first, I'm already feeling a lot better! Since reading this page even! The trifecta (!) of stretching../pelvic floors../posture seems to have done absolute wonders! I'm feeling heaps better! I'm soooo much more positive than a few days ago. Thanks for helping me out, clarifying stuff that was so confusing/troubling, and giving your advice.

---------
posture: I'm paying a lot more attention to posture. And it seems to be really paying off. I try to always sit back, and generally speaking, never 'hunch'.. no matter whereI am. While at home (I'm living in Asia), I'm sitting on the floor quite a lot. That makes it a bit of a challenge to sit well. You can have good, helpful posture while sitting on the ground, right? I have been on the bike a lot, still. Hard to give up! But on the bike, I am not hunched, and I sit upright. I often do the PFs while on the bike.

stretches: mmm, with the stretches, they're going OK. I relax into them. A back specialist told me to do them.. a mix of a few stretches. Most of them feel good, and help. But there are a couple of stretches I wanted to mention. A couple of stretches.. the body just says "No way! Don't even think about it!". I don't know what the problem is exactly, and when the body is going to stop saying "Don't do this stretch". >
This hurts, so.. I don't do it much, for now:
[lying down, left leg bent, lean the leg to the right.. so left kneetouches or nears floor to the right.]
Another that's similarly painful:
[lying down, left leg straight up.].I'm hoping that pain sorts itself out, especially with all this help from good posture & PFs.

---------
The pain is still there of course. Sometimes, when I stand up, it's still there.. but what's giving me hope.. is the definite feeling that it's improving! Thank you so much for all your help. Grateful for your replies! Don't expect you to answer all these bits and pieces!

 

[happygirl]

Great news that you are getting better, and pleased to help.
As for the stretches - sounds like your piriformis is in spasm - you could try squeezing a cushion between your knees and see if this releases it. It will get better with time anyway.
Good outcome so far!
Sharon.

Edit to say - about sitting on the ground - are you squatting? If so I believe that's what we evolved to do, and is a good position. Sitting X legged or just lounging around the floor is fine too. It's sitting on chairs that's the problem! We haven't evolvedwith chairs.

 

[Aly]

Thanks heaps Sharon. Just wrote down most of that post verbatim! .....awesome help.

Last night, was thinking a bit about what I remembered from your post. And a couple of things...:

notice you said about the glutes.. and not drawing on them and pushing down on the floor. but ......One of the exercises my doc (back specialist) encouraged was the sort of "squashing a ball beneath your back"... or imaginging doing that. He even hooked me up with some pressure guage, and measured how strong I could push down, down, down. I guess my question is: is it good or not so good to do that "lying down straight... pushing down (sort of belly button down)"? Is it good to exercise the glutes at all?

I think ..what was the other thing... ! oh yeah, yesterday I got the painful exercise bit wrong. It's more "left-knee bent & stretching to the right.. left foot on right knee"rather than"left-knee-touching-floor to the right".. . You probably knew that I wasn't spot on!

I'll have a good read of your post, and try em out! Thanks heaps!

 

[rodenoste]

Yes that's fine-it's a posterior pelvic tilt, and will stretch your lumbar spine - as long as you candifferentiate this exercise from a pure pelvic floor/TA exercise, which can be done without moving the spine. It's a different exercise - and can be combined with PF/TAs - but the best way to check that you have control of those is by keeping your body still as you draw them on.Because the glutes are closely associated with the back passage muscles people who are working too hard will often use them instead of(or maybe as well as) the PF - and the back will drop to the floor.

Glutes - don't get me started..............good glutes are a vital part of a balanced body.............Poor glutes/flat back are a frequent reason for low back pain.

The stretch - yes there are a few ways you can do this one - try just putting your left leg over your right(both knees bent)and dropping to either/both sides - it may feel less painful - it will stretch a different part of teh external hip rotators.
Sharon

 

[Lucy Lou]

[blockquote]
[blockquote]Hi.... spinal music mainly! hey anyone else too! I was going to write earlier.. last couple of weeks or so. It was pretty good!!! (Wish I'd written a bit of an update then!)

Now, it's mmmmmmm [&:]it's not that bad! It's not worse, which is great!

But it seems to have reverted a bit! Or the pain is in a bit of a holding pattern![:-] .

I've been going with the exercises, stretches and so on for maybe 3 weeks now. Maybe (!) I haven't been as conscientious as I should be! I think I am working those important back muscles, and pelvic muslces!

---Now ..I really feel pretty strong pain (sometimes I should add) when I lean over.. especially bending a bit.. especially putting weight on that left leg. Picking up something from the ground, especially with the lean/weight on the left leg.. ouch! Walking up stairs... no good!! [] all on that left lower back/far upper leg combo!

---Gotta keep at it. I just wish I could lose that "pain in the leg"! ...> to be more exact , that far upper left leg area, related to a bulging disc!

Cheers! [/blockquote][/blockquote]

 

[fsrqvrkv]

Did you check out your iliopsoas from the link in post 4? And can you get to someone who will supervise you to check you are exercising correctly - a physio? Manipulation may well help too.

 

[airmonkey120]

hey

yeah .. been doing the pillow between the legs just about every day. Probably should do it more. That's a really important exercise, I'm guessing.

mmm, yeah, I should really do it more.

I am basically sure I am not exercising incorrectly, put it that way. I'm pretty gentle also. Physio... kinda hard here! Money, and language probs!... it's alright on my own, i GUESS!

um... yeah, going up stairs sometimes kills on the upper left leg/lower back. (<That is a real new experience, and pretty disturbing). I just want to be free! Sometimes: standing...& lifting up the left leg... ouch! that's also new. Sooo gotta fix that!

So.. really got to work on the piriformis..? with the cushion.... "in spasm".... how does that kinda work? I dunno, i've got no idea how to picture it in spasm, but it doesn't feel like it's in spasm (but probably is)... I dunno what the hell is going on there!

Cheers!

 

[jayant]

Piriformis can tighten (not necessarily spasm, which means an uncontrolled tightening of the muscles) and if your sciatic nerve runs through piriformis, rather than outside it, you get sciatic symptoms.
Just a thought - sometimes people drive around with their wallet in their back pocket which pushes into the muscle and the nerve, and this causes the symptoms.

Can you get pain relief? When my disc was prolapsing (and I had your symptoms) a muscle relaxant made life bearable: when you are in painyour muscles tend to tighten and contract and the body contorts, and then problems arise because of this.
Are you still cycling?
Can you lie on you tummy and do the "cobra" ie go into extension? This may help, but only do it if its comfortable - and lead the movement off the floor from your eyes lifting, then the chin, then the upper back. It may be totally inappropriate for you if it's painful. I can't tell, it depends what's happening in your spine.
Aren't there any alternative practitioners around you that might be helpful?For manipulation/muscle relaxation. Most good therapists understand a lot through their hands and body language is always useful.

The lifting the leg thing - sounds like it might be psoas, a long, strong muscle that attaches to every part of the front of the spine, from the base of the diaphragm down (in fact it melds with the "legs" or "crura" of the diaphragm.).

Here's something else to try. Lie as before - but instead of being in neutral pelvis position, put a cushion under your bottom, and allow your low back to drop and release into the floor. (Don't push it just let it happen)So apart from your neck, your spine is flat. Do nothing for a while, just relax and breathe. Your feet are on the floor (known as "crook lying or relaxation position").Then lengthenone foot away from you until your pelvis wants to move - don't let it, draw the leg back again. Keep breathing, and keep the rest of your body relaxed. Repeat other leg.The flow of the muscle that attaches your leg to your spine(psoas) is away from you, so whatever the leg is doing think about themuscle flowing away, down towards your leg. Do this a few times and then just do nothing again for a while. Roll onto your side before you get up.
When you walk, think about walking from the start of this muscle, just under the rib cage - you will fiind yourself walking taller and lighter - then walk from your hips - you'll become heavier and compressed.
Hope this helps!

 

[Arion Tsuki]

thank you so much!

sorry.. haven't replied sooner! I read your post (...a quick look at the net couple days ago). I wrote it down ...and have been having a go.

first of all.. gotta say, it's pretty incredible! Just in a few days of cushion-crushing, my back feels like it's working for once! My legs can move! Feels good!

a little "ooh.. that hurts a bit!" every now and then, but... even just today.. so much better! .......Feels like it is heading towards progress... such a good feeling!


Did want to ask a few questions. Don't get much time on the net!

First of all , wanted to say.. you're a lifesaver! I really appreciate your help. without spinal music, I would be rolling around still!


I guess, in random order..

The "cobra"... got me a bit stumped! Tried it out.. and didn't really know what I was doing!

what else.. oh, the cushion-squeezing is going great. I'm doing "leapfrog" as well... (because I saw it in a Pilates book my dad sent me!).Doing the "leaprog" (big wide legs stretch out, as you know) isn't particularly "harming" anything as such, is it, considering my issue?

what else... doing push-ups isn't bad, is it?

------
Thanks again for everything. Sorry about taking time to respond

 

[TheBald]

Push ups - (pressups?) are fine - just keep your core muscles on as you do them - pelvic floor and lower tummy drawing in, and keep your upper back pressed into your tee-shirt.
Leap frog - I think I know what you mean, (but there are so many variations of Pilates exercises)Anyway this is fine - when you draw your legs together squeeze them. Your core can start at your feet, through your inner calves andinner thighs, through your inner trunk to you neck and the base of your skull. Think"apple core". Hence with this exercise squeeze the air between your legs as they are coming together, and thensqueeze your legs together "Charlie Chaplin" style - buttocks squeezing, heels together, toes apart. Again, keep core muscles on - about 20-30% of your max.
Cobra - start face down, maybe with a cushion under your tummy/pubic bone for comfort. Legs relaxed. Arms at rightangles beside you. On in breath lift your eyes, then your chin, neck, upper back - maybe till your tummy is off the floor. Make the effort come from your back, not your arms. When you go down, breathe out, and try to lay your spine down slightly further forward than where you picked it up. Just be careful here as this can be counter-productive if it hurts.

As for the thanks for the help - it's a pleasure. It's great to hear you are improving. And I hope others might gain from this correspondence. I've been in agony myself, that's why I trained to do what Ido now. I wish I'd had the benefit of my present experience at that time, it would have saved a lot of pain.

Sharon.

 

[Bitterford M]

Wow. I can't believe I posted here in October, ,....a bit desperate for help back then!! I've been at the stretching and the 'squeezing' for most of this time, and , well, it's good!!! The old back is holding up nicely!! It's so vital to keep working it, I think. well, other parts of the body are hogging my attention now! this is to say thanks again spinal music and everyone here, for helping me heaps!!

 

[Mela G]

Hi fox1,

Really interesting to read your messages posted on the forum. I'm just about to post my story as a new member entry. To cut a long story short I've just started Pilates and reading your responses from spinal music has filled me with a lot of confidence to sort my own back out!

take care

Andrew