Bang for the buck

[Maira]

One of the mistakes seen in this Forum is considering TJ as the Mexico and nothing else more exists.
Granted, many only come to TJ, but in other forums, Mexico is well visited by many and everywhere, prostitution is tolerated, not persecuted.

Both you and I know that what we do, me as a customer and you, specially you, a "lenon" know that we are violating lots of stuff that should be enforced.
Not only local mandates, but international treaties that Mexico has suscribed to.

1. Me as customer, can only be fined up to 500 pesos (average, depending of the State of Mexico). If I can be stopped by the police and marked, taken to a judge and fined, that means Iam doing something that is not legal.
Or am I wrong?

2. As a "lenon", if the law wants, it can be very harsh. They can accuse you of everything starting with the explotation of women and ending with "trata de personas", plus anything that might comes to mind, like child pornography and slavery.
Mexico City has been very hard on this kind of crimes in the last months and Monterrey has started following this trend too, in a lazy way, but I was surprised when they started.
But anyway, Mexico City, Chiapas and Tabasco are the only ones right now.

Asides from that, we know this "crime" is tolerated, nothing will happen if we employ the services of ho's and escorts.
Yes, that's the point: "If the authorities want to..." and they are not wanting right now.
They just want to be on the take and live an easy life for the moment.

Yes. we all are part of the equation of a dirty is the business.

PS: did you know that, again, lawmakers were proposing that prostitution customers be thrown into jail??? Didn't go thru.
Every 6 years a wise ass politician comes with this idea, thankfully the rest of the gang saw it as stupid.

 

[ebrliekich]

Are you saying prostitution is illegal in TJ and tourists should take notice they might end up in jail for seeing prostitutes?

What's your point Amigomio?

 

[Katkin]

Here we go again.
I have to remind you again, that in Mexico as in may places in the world, there has to be a law to permit an occupation as sordid as prostitution to be allowed.
Remember in Mexico, the legal axiom goes "you are guilty till proven innocent".

And since there is no written law that says such thing, places prostitution in one of Mexico's grey areas.

That is why the police can do what ever they want with someone caught with a hooker.

And I have many times posted this link directed to American tourists from the Municipio de Tijuana:

http://www.tijuana.gob.mx/turismo/TouristGuide/English/pag6.asp

Please read: "Activities related to drugs or prostitution." And the fine you have to pay.

It doesn't specify if indoors or outdoors, it just says "Activities".
Grey area indeed.

Guys, you have to understand that what was posted by Abogabob is an INTERPRETATION, not the written law or in this case the Municipio de Tijuanas Regulation.

Back to grey areas and police can do with whatever they want with you.

I see that the "no ID" has happened to some here.
Yes boys and girls, if a girl, yes and this means "ANY GIRL", is not carrying her ID the police can say, and they will, that she's a minor and boy will you be in hot water then.

And this part: "If, however, you meet a chica who isn't dressed as a "puta" inside Carl's Jr. and get into a cab that takes you to La Mansion the cops probably can't make a case of public manifestation of prostitution stick."

Believe me, if they see you do it, and they know the girl as a ho, yes they can do it.
They'll say you did it in the street and that's the end of it.

Of course we go back to the fines... which am sure that by now, nobody has read.
Fines go within the range of 452 pesos to 1357 pesos.
Have those numers in mind if you are bribing the cops.

 

[Aneel]

Many times I've said that prostitution per se is legal in TJ. But "public manifestation of prostitution" is not.

Note well that the statute abogado quotes says the act needs to occur in a public place to be an infraction of the law:

؟puede la policيa arrestarme por contratar los servicios de una escort? SI, acorde al reglamento citado anteriormente y siempre y cuando tal transacciَn se esté llevando a cabo en un lugar pْblico
(Emphasis mine.)

We all know cops often violate the law in the hope of scoring a bribe. Abogado's basic assement is that the cops may arrest you, but the judge probably will dismiss the charges. The key is was prostitution occuring in a public or private place--and I've always said "public manifestation of prostitution" is illegal. If found guilty the fine is three days minimum wages (not much in Mexico.) Also, remember that in Tijuana (unlike in the US) the cops must take you to see a judge (they're on duty 24/7) before they can put you in jail.

As I've posted before, here's how I see it:

If you take a chica dressed like a "puta" out of bar or club (located outside the Zone of Tolerance) and walk hand-in-hand with her down Revolucion to a local hotel the cops can make a case for public manefistation of prostitution. (So--if you're worried--have her meet you inside the hotel lobby.)

If, however, you meet a chica who isn't dressed as a "puta" inside Carl's Jr. and get into a cab that takes you to La Mansion the cops probably can't make a case of public manifestation of prostitution stick.

-----------------

The cops once stopped me when I was parked downtown with my gf. They first tried to get a bribe by saying she was underage. That fell flat as she had ID showing her age. They next tried the public manifestation of prostution charge. That, too, fell flat when we said we were friends--a young girl being found in the company of an old man is not evidence of prostition, whatever the cops may say.

-------------

I've posted that I've discussed this issue with three diferent Mexican attorneys. Can I now say four?

 

[starsky_1212]

Funny indeed...

 

[imablaaze4life]

legalidad o ilegalidad de la actividad escort

En éste topic han tocado éste tema y como algunos han sufrido el que la autoridad les extorcione en virtud de tal actividad por lo que aclararé algunas dudas en lenguaje comْn y no técnico-jurيdico para no generar mلs interrogantes:
Hay que primeramente distinguir entre DELITO E INFRACCIسN: el delito amerita una pena corporal -carcel-(por ejemplo el homicidio), la infracciَn tan solo amerita una sanciَn econَmica o un arresto hasta por 36hrs si no puedes pagar.
LA PROSTITUCIسN NO ES UN DELITO pero en Tijuana si es una infracciَn, asي lo establece el reglamento de Bando y buen gobierno para nuestro municipio que establece en el apartado tيtulado "Infracciones que constituyen faltas a la moral" artيculo 132.-
Realizar en lugares pْblicos o privados actividades que inviten o induzcan a la prلctica de cualquier vicio o favorezcan la prostituciَn.
y la sanciَn viene en el artيculo 193 del mismo reglamento que establece una multa de 30 hasta 50 dيas de salario mيnimo que hablando en nْmeros redondos serيa aproximadamente entre 1,500 a 2,500pesos.
La molestيa mayor es el "paseo" en la unidad de seguridad pْblica, el esperar que el juez calificador determine la sanciَn y la posible exposiciَn de su rostro en los medios informativos, pero JAMءS irلs a la carcél o serلs procesado por ofrecer o solicitar servicios de prostituciَn.
Ahora bien por prostituciَn debemos entender el acto de participar en actividades sexuales a cambio de dinero o bienes, por lo que aunque la retribuciَn le denominen "donaciَn", regalo o como le gusten decir de todos modos recae en lo mismo.
Lo que SI estل prohibido es la prostituciَn de menores, de personas que tengan incapacidad para entender el acto o que no puedan resistir por violencia fيsica, moral o estado de necesidad el ejercer la prostituciَn.
Aquي se deja un parلmetro muy amplio en relaciَn con la falta de capacidad para entender el acto ya que muchos piensan que mلgicamente al cumplir 18aٌos ya se tiene "madurez" pero la realidad es que existen ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ que entran a esa edad al ambiente y NO tienen idea de las consecuencias futuras de sus actos, lo ْnico que cambia es que ya no es un delito por minorيa de edad. En éste aspecto cabe recomendar a las personas que "manejan" o "administran" las agencias que realmente hagan una labor de anلlisis profundo de quien trabajarل con uds. ya que por ejemplo en el caso de X chica cuando se acercَ en un estado de necesidad a x agencia su decisiَn inicial fue quizل demasiado impulsiva sin medir consecuencias a largo plazo, el posible problema ahي serيa que posteriormente ella tuviese problemas de carلcter psicologico como repercusiَn por su decisiَn. Este ejemplo que pongo es respecto de una dama de edad media, ahora imaginemos las que tienen recien 18aٌos ؟que las motiva a incursionar en este ambiente? Es por ello que recomiendo el que a efecto de que no tengan posteriores arrepentimientos o traumas que realmente los administradores de las agencias les hagan un verdadero exلmen de conciencia para evitar futuros males.

Espero nadie malinterprete la informaciَn que proporciono, simplemente pretendo auxiliar y aclarar dudas. Volviendo a la LEGALIDAD O ILEGALIDAD, re♥♥♥♥ NO ES UN CRIMEN/DELITO pero si es considerado una infracciَn. La LEY no prohibe la actividad pero SI la regula por lo que crea لreas que se consideran como de TOLERANCIA (zona norte) ya que imagيnen si tal actividad no tuviera restricciones serيa tanto como no tener seٌales d trلnsito en una ciudad: se generarيa un caos social que incluso afectarيa a las personas que se dedican a ello.
El tarjeton de salubridad NO es un permiso para ejercer la prostituciَn, simplemente es un medio de control sanitario que en esencia tiene un buen propَsito, lamentablemente la falta de recursos para tal لrea no permite dar el apoyo adecuado a las que ejercen tal actividad.

؟puede la policيa arrestarme por contratar los servicios de una escort? SI, acorde al reglamento citado anteriormente y siempre y cuando tal transacciَn se esté llevando a cabo en un lugar pْblico, ya que para ingresar a un lugar considerado privado tendrيan que tener una orden judicial (emitida por un juez).
Lamentablemente la realidad es que la autoridad ingresarل al lugar sin orden y causarل la molestيa y serل con posterioridad que se declararل la ilegalidad del arresto o allanamiento efectuado pero mientras tanto el daٌo ya estل hecho.

Con gusto responderé las preguntas que tengan al respecto
_______________________________________________________

Question: riginalmente publicado por cachivo
Egzelente estimado abogado... solo tengo una preguntilla...

En su criterio, quienes son los responsables de tomar las decisiones de si se allana un lugar privado sin orden de un juaez y si hay algo que los dueٌos puedan hacer antes de que suceda, como medio de prevencion.

Gracias de antemano.

Saludos
-------------------------------------------------------------
Abogado wrote: Cuando son establecimientos pْblicos (por ejemplo CHEATERS o el adelas) la autoridad municipal tiene derecho de en cualquier momento ingresar para verificar que se cumplan con las regulaciones de la licencia bajo la cual esta operando, si es una casa particular sin ningْn tipo de permiso para operar ahي se corre mayor riesgo aunque no lo creas ya que generalmente la revisiَn ya estل ordenada debido a alguna denuncia ciudadano o "secreto a voces".
Los dueٌos como medio de prevenciَn tienen primeramente que conocer los ordenamientos que regulan su actividad para no dar pretexto a la autoridad a que realice tal allanamiento (obvio consultar o tener un abogado de cabecera SIEMPRE), es lamentable que a veces piensen que dando una feria aquي y allل van a estar mلs protegidos "pagando piso" a la autoridad ya que generalmente los que pagan son sobre los que mلs estarلn y los que ponen resistencia pues obvio la "autorida" no perderل ni invertirل tiempo en ellos. Finalmente serل mلs econَmico pagar las sanciones econَmicas y deslindar responsabilidades ante un juez calificador que lo que te puedan llegar a cobrar como derecho de piso.
Las clausuras NO son por ejercer la prostituciَn, sino por falta de permisos de operaciَn, licencia de alcohol, edad de trabajadores, faltas al reglamento de bomberos, etc. En una ocasiَn le clausuraron una maquila a SONY porque no contaba con el nْmero de botiquines necesarios en base a el nْmero de empleados.
En conclusiَn: la "medicina preventiva" aquي es mejor que los remedios, por lo que se recomienda tener una buena asesorيa externa y mucho ojo de una persona que conozca no de cualquier persona, ya que Lics. hay muchos pero pocos saben respecto a cada materia.
abogado estل fuera de lيnea Reportar post
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Ver perfil pْblico
Enviar un mensaje privado a abogado

 

[Erma B]

Burt wrote:

Here is a post by a monger that claims he is a lawyer on "Sexy Tijuana" that goes by the name of what else? Abogado.

He writes a very interesting sticky post on their legal section about the legality of prostitution in TJ. He distinguishes between crimes and offenses and which if the two can land you in jail or which result in just a fine. He talks about
"Violation offenses in morality" and where you could be arrested for prostitution in public places. He says many of the same things Burt says, but definitively doesn't go along with Burt's assessment that mongers can't get arrested.

He says they could be arrested, and talks about how cops enter places without warrants all the time and cause considerable discomfort to you the monger. Now he says the bust might later be subsequently be declared unlawful, but it too late as the damage in already done to you. And that's true, remember the cops can always fuck with you, and depending on your situation it's not going to always matter if the cop is acting within the law or not.

Anyway it's a great little read if you read Spanish, and if you don't just use a translator to understand the gist of what he is talking about.

Also keep in mind "Sexy Tijuana" has an agenda like others so you may not always be getting accurate information and you should always do you own research to be sure:

 

[TWIGGY2]

Hardduck wrote:

If your truly a newbie than your first trip to Tijuana should be to the "Zona Norte" home of "Adelitas" and some of the other bars. This by far is the easiest thing to do. Just jump in the cab and say "Adelitas" and if that's too hard to say then say "Chicago club" which in the same area, and he still might drop you off in front of AB. Perhaps after that you can stroll the alley and pick up an SG for $20 bucks.

The eye candy you'll see is phenomenal in the bars and streets. The one escort you see might be nice looking too, and probably will provide better service at an expensive price. But are you really looking for "GFE" and a BBBJ your first trip to TJ. GFE is overrated around these parts, especially when so many people have different definitions of what "GFE" is. If you pick right, you'll get a good fuck in AB, and a quick decent fuck on the streets with an SG for $20 dollars, less if you use pesos.

If you ask me escorts are something you should try after doing the bars and perhaps picking one once too many times, and want to try something new.

Escorts are good too, if you been reading the papers so much how dangerous TJ is. The escort services will pick you up, hold your hand, deliver you and the girl to a nice hotel, and drop you off again SAFE, but it will cost you, and you wouldn't have got a chance to see all the bars and streets on her own.

 

[Pompal 09.]

As Sampson noted, the majority of escorts expect you to provide the room. They will recommend a good hotel and the price of the room will be very reasonable. The taxi costs will be about $5 each way and the room will should not cost more than $30 to $40, often less. You may have special requests for upscale rooms and, of course, the price can go much higher.

If you patronize one of the established escort agencies, you should have no problem. If you do have a problem, they have shown that they will work with you to correct the situation to the best of their abilities. Here is a list (my apologies if I omit any of the obvious candidates):

www.mexicolindobar.com (Sampson's crew -- highly recommended)
www.cumintj.com (NOB / Mundo)
www.hottijuana.net (Tania -- Tania herself will host, all others you pay for the hotel)
www.adultbaja.com (a.k.a. tijuanagirlz.com)
www.livelatinangels.com (just celebrated their first year of successful operation)

There are a few others that are just getting off the ground. For someone new to escorting, I would recommend staying with those listed above. Personally, I can recommend Sampson and Tania without hesitation. If you are also a massage fan, Tania is a first-rate masseuse who will also give you a massage that in the United States would cover the cost of the entire session. (Actually, some of her better massage techniques would normally never be available at massage establishments in the U.S. -- God Bless Tijuana!) I have had good experiences with adultbaja.com and a so-so experience with cumintj.com (not bad, just not great). I have no personal experience with livelatinangels.com but they have been fairly well reviewed during their first year.

Happy Hunting! Be sure to tell us how it all turns out.

 

[reis]

There are some out there that provide a room.

Generally you meet at or near the border and taxi together to a room. Ask the agency or escort you book how it works before making your decision. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

 

[Ashley Ireland]

Ok gents, I need some education. I am planning my next trip down to TJ for this friday. I was thinking about the escort but I am truely a newbie. If I get an escort will they provide a room or do I get my own. I speak very little spanish so am a little afraid to venture to far from the Zone.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Not exactly. It's running a brothel that is illegal--not patronizing one. (Gringos often have trouble understanding the legal hair splitting on this issue. But Mexico is still a country with a vestige of laws favoring men.)

As long as you're not making money off the earnings of a prostitute you won't have any problems during a raid. If, however, you're caught pimping or pandering you can be in big trouble.

Before the laws changed under Jorge Hank MPs were frequently closed. (Whatever they call themselves MPs are legally a brothel.) Lots of mongers were "taking care of business" when MPs were raided--and none were ever arrested.

As I've posted many times, in Tijuana prostitution per se is legal. There are, however, lots of legal restrictions on activities related to prostitution. Examples: Solicitation outside the Zone of Tolerance is illegal. So is pimping and pandering, which is what gets the owner, manger, etc. of a brothel in trouble.

Note that the owner, manger, etc. of a hotel used by "putas" and her clients is never arrested although everyone knows prostitution is rampant on the premises. That's because he isn't making his money by pimping and pandering.

 

[zack]

Thanks guys. there is definitely much for me to still learn. I was thinking about going down soon but there is all that news about people being killed due to drug wars and to stay away from border cities. I guess I need to weigh the risks and think with my head.... Risk weighed!!! Little head wins!
Thanks again "sin ropa" is gonna be my new phrase.

 

[higs4477]

Best value is to have your own hotel room,
Then troll the 2nd line bars like las chavelas.
Find one you connext with and you can get hours
for 100-150

 

[KellyC]

Listen to da' ScatMan! The SGs are experts at the "upsell" -- you need to have everything negotiated before you find yourself in that little room together.

Just doing a bit of rummaging around on this and other TJ forums will reveal volumes of information about the differences between the SGs, BGs, and escorts. Many of the mongers have very strong views about which are best and why you should stay away from the others. The fact that all three groups exist show there is a market for each. Once you have explored those three avenues, you might even want to venture out into the newly-burgeoning world of the "casas de citas" which are somewhat similar to brothels. But that either takes some moderate Spanish skills or some creative usage of the taxistas de Tijuana. Personally, I have been having some fun with this group lately. In terms of service and price, they are closer to the BGs, but the time is more comparable to escorts (if you play your cards well) and you do not have to be subjected to eardrum-damaging music. It is my understanding that although prostitution is legal in Mexico, brothels are not. So it may be only a matter of time before the authorities in Mexico get around to making a few high-profile raids.

Be sure to keep us updated regarding your adventures.

Happy Hunting!

 

[CAROLE]

If you negotiate up-front in a soft voice with street girls (so her sidewalk neighbors cannot hear the conversation) many will go up in a package deal of fuckie-suckie, sin-ropa (fully nude) with dos or tres positions for a total cost of 200 to 300 pesos ($15 to $25 at current rates).

That's hard to beat.

 

[livelovebhappy]

Whats the best bang for the buck. I am still fairly new to the TJ scene. I started off just going to the clubs with friends but to chicken to partake in the abundance of... well... you know. I spent to much money on my first few visits. I have had a few SG and BG but still have not done the escort thing yet. SG not actually that cheep if you think about it. 20 for 15 min plus 5 for room, with 5 for second possition, 5-10 for BJ, and I like top off so 5-10 for that as well. On the cheep thats 45-55 + tip for 15min if you finish. BG 40-60 for 30min, 12 for room. Thats 52-72 + tip and to date I have always finished. Escorts I am not sure but you tell me.