Another knee issue...

[JKuL]

15 year old male went to get out of bed just before Christmas last year and found he couldn't bend his knee without serious pain. Fast fwd to his first appt with me in Sept, still on a cane after seeing every specialist imaginable. MRI showed nothing at hip, leg, or knee except one spot at knee they felt was arthritis or something, but not anything that would cause him distress in bending the knee. He had been through extensive PT where he took vicodin to help with the pain and left soaking wet from sweat from the therapy. Many family members and school teachers/friends have come to the conclusion he is making it up as they can't find anything wrong.

First session, he can't bend the knee at all without cringing. Quads are very tight, but gracilis isn't too bound. The binding is medial to lateral. Pain starts about 3 inches above knee dead center and then angles laterally. I did MFR leg pull and for knee cap as well. Worked semi-deep at quads going by pain tolerance and worked glutes/hip pretty deep. Not too bound there. Iliopsoas is fine as well. Have worked on him once a week since end of August. Went to Walt in NY for MFR and he showed me some quad work to try on him. After 2 sessions of those stretches plus continued deep tissue work, he can bend his leg for the fist time 90 degrees (thanks Walt!) but he can't hold it there but for a short period of time. He describes his pain as deep inside his knee and then Medial to lateral quad. He also describes feeling as if his knee is going to pop when he bends it.

My question finally (sorry for the length) is it possible they missed something in the MRI back then? But his knee is not loose and isn't unstable? I am trying to decide if we have gone as far as we can in what I'm doing and if I should send him back to PT or what? I also have him walking without his cane 3 times a day but he can only walk twice down the hall without loosing strength. His goal is to be well by his b-day so he can drive his car.

 

[Lil Dvl]

I worked on someone with similar issues. He was tested for lyme's disease among MRI's, X-rays, PT, exploratory surgery, etc.

I did some lymph work, Shiatsu and applied a castor oil pack. He subsequently applied castor oil packs himself at home. After two castor oil packs, no more pain/swelling. His pain was also described as deep in the knee.

Never did find out what it was, but he has been pain free for over a year.

 

[Shay ley ley]

It seems to me that they "did" find something, but the spot wasn't something they were concerned with. If that something were a small bone chip, it is my uneducated guess that it could cause the sensation of wanting to pop when it has lodged itself under the patella.

From what you've written, you are getting better results than the PT did previously. If you feel otherwise, or are at the bottom of your tool bag (so to speak) a referral may be in order.

This sequence we learned in Tuina, taught to us by a licensed acupuncturist. I present it here for those familiar with Tuina, as I have had very good results with this treatment:

**SUPINE
1. Points - press and hold, then rub:
ST34
ST35
Xiyan (ST35) + Xiebai (ST36)
ST36
UB40 - use longitudinal strokes on patellar tendons

2. Grasping on quads and adductors
3. Plucking on quads and over patella (may also use grasping
4. Digging with fingertips around patella with some plucking
(have client rotate)
PRONE
5. Grasping on hamstrings
6. Plucking on hamstrings
7. Grasping on gastrocnemius and soleus
8. Plucking on gastrocnemius and soleus
9. Use friction or light rubbing over popliteal fossa

Re-check the knee.**

Unfortunately, if he is hearing all of that negativity (nothing wrong, it's in his head) it will be hard for him to believe that this condition will improve. As Albert Schweitzer said, "All healing is self-healing." Be sure to let him know that you believe him and point out that you've both seen improvement.

 

[Mum knows best]

Did they rule out Osgood-Schlatter? This is a condition that is troublesome for teenagers. It can last for maybe a year, and then goes away. The symptoms seem similar.

wellnessgarden

 

[basement cat]

I worked on someone with similar issues. He was tested for lyme's disease among MRI's, X-rays, PT, exploratory surgery, etc.

I did some lymph work, Shiatsu and applied a castor oil pack. He subsequently applied castor oil packs himself at home. After two castor oil packs, no more pain/swelling. His pain was also described as deep in the knee.

Never did find out what it was, but he has been pain free for over a year.

I'll give it a try. Thank you!

 

[Fearless]

TouchofGrace,

PM me some times to call you and we can talk about some progressions from where you started.

 

[Zak]

It seems to me that they "did" find something, but the spot wasn't something they were concerned with. If that something were a small bone chip, it is my uneducated guess that it could cause the sensation of wanting to pop when it has lodged itself under the patella.

From what you've written, you are getting better results than the PT did previously. If you feel otherwise, or are at the bottom of your tool bag (so to speak) a referral may be in order.

This sequence we learned in Tuina, taught to us by a licensed acupuncturist. I present it here for those familiar with Tuina, as I have had very good results with this treatment:

**SUPINE
1. Points - press and hold, then rub:
ST34
ST35
Xiyan (ST35) + Xiebai (ST36)
ST36
UB40 - use longitudinal strokes on patellar tendons

2. Grasping on quads and adductors
3. Plucking on quads and over patella (may also use grasping
4. Digging with fingertips around patella with some plucking
(have client rotate)
PRONE
5. Grasping on hamstrings
6. Plucking on hamstrings
7. Grasping on gastrocnemius and soleus
8. Plucking on gastrocnemius and soleus
9. Use friction or light rubbing over popliteal fossa

Re-check the knee.**

Unfortunately, if he is hearing all of that negativity (nothing wrong, it's in his head) it will be hard for him to believe that this condition will improve. As Albert Schweitzer said, "All healing is self-healing." Be sure to let him know that you believe him and point out that you've both seen improvement.

I don't know anything about Tuina, unfortunately. Yeah, he told me first visit how glad he is that I believe him. Fortunately, his parents believe him too, it's his grandparents and friends of family/school officials that doubt him. He is a very stable kid, emotionally and isn't letting it get him down. Very positive attitude and determined. When they mentioned bringing him back to PT, he was adamant that this (massage) was the only thing he could both feel and see good results from and he wasn't going back to PT right now. But...I don't want to keep working on him much longer without further progress. The referral out is a good idea. I'm going to start checking with therapists in the area who have had experience with this kind of issue. Thanks!

 

[Cannoli]

Did they rule out Osgood-Schlatter? This is a condition that is troublesome for teenagers. It can last for maybe a year, and then goes away. The symptoms seem similar.

wellnessgarden

I had to look that up and when I did, realized that is what I had when I was 15, but his pain is different. Thanks!

 

[ann_svit]

TouchofGrace,

PM me some times to call you and we can talk about some progressions from where you started.

Will do!

 

[koba]

It sounds almost like what I had around that time of my life. I was a little younger 13/14, but one day woke up with my knee swollen horribly and I couldn't bend it at all, let alone put weight on it. They never "found" anything that caused it. I was on crutches for months. It took time, but I healed.

You may now return to the previously scheduled topic.

 

[crazzy_nascar_chick]

It sounds almost like what I had around that time of my life. I was a little younger 13/14, but one day woke up with my knee swollen horribly and I couldn't bend it at all, let alone put weight on it. They never "found" anything that caused it. I was on crutches for months. It took time, but I healed.

You may now return to the previously scheduled topic.

Wow! Did your leg hold fluid the entire time or only initially? He has no swelling at all.

Thanks for your replies. I am going to try more MFR coached by Walt and we'll go from here. I'll keep you updated...

Thanks,
Sandra